techpeace

Just checked Huncwot out - looks like a great project, thanks!

And congrats to mojombo and team! You probably already use something Tom wrote without realizing it.

Congrats on hitting 1.0.0! Thanks for all the hard work. The Elixir community is producing some really exciting stuff.

Right you are! I didn't realize it had beaten Rails to the punch by a year. But yes, I will stand by my claim that Rails was responsible for popularizing the notion in the wider web development community.

Could you name a major web framework that implemented the MVC pattern prior to Rails?

Here's a handy test to determine if two technological terms mean the same thing: are they used interchangeably? If I said to someone, "oh that looks like you need a SOAPful interface," would they assume that I meant RESTful? Probably not, since they're two different technologies. The move to REST was actually inspired by the perceived deficiencies in WSDL and SOAP.

> The funny part is that technically Rails and Rails-inspired REST frameworks get it wrong.

Well, that's a bit tangential to my original point. I wasn't claiming that you specifically liked the way it was implemented, just that Rails, and thus the Ruby community, was responsible for its popularity. Despite the length of this thread, neither of you has managed to debunk that claim with anything resembling evidence.

Find a reference to Tomcat using REST before 2007, and give us the link. I'd bet you can't, since Rails was the first major web framework to implement REST.

> REST hit it big with the www, www is REST's killer app.

Since REST was invented in 2000, and the web itself had been around for a bit before that, I fail to see how this could be true.

WSDL/SOAP are not REST. I'm telling you that REST was popularized by Rails, because it was the first major web framework to use it. You've yet to refute that argument, but you do continue to be rude, so have a good one!

> CoffeeScript doesn't work because it requires you to learn a new language on top of JS.

The folks that have been quietly productive with CoffeeScript for years, and have and continue to make millions of dollars because of it, would likely disagree with you on that point.

> Your point is that Ruby's role to all of the developments you mention is essential and unique. I'm arguing it's not. By far.

> The only remarkably unique thing about the Ruby community I keep noticing as an outside its rise and fall of the Brogrammer culture and the aftershock we're still experiencing to this day. But even that, I think, would have happened even if Ruby never existed.

Well, you've failed to sway me on that (by far), and the clear chip on your shoulder you have regarding the Ruby community as a whole leads me to believe your vociferous arguments to the contrary might be motivated by something other than your desire to spread the truth.

I didn't claim that the Ruby community invented REST. Rails 1.2 (2006) was the first major web framework to implement it. Do you have any evidence to support your claim that I'm incorrect?

Could you point me to a major web framework that used REST before Rails 1.2 (2006)?

> What the f* are you on? Or were you born a few years ago and just worked with Ruby since then?

I've been using Ruby professionally for 10 years.

Here's a quick (incomplete) list of web innovations you can thank the Ruby community for either popularizing or inventing outright:

* REST * Many parts of ES.next * Front-end build tools * CSS pre-compilation * JS transpilation

I spent years happily using multi-line template strings while JS developers informed me how idiotic I was for using a transpiler. Since Ruby's goal is to be a language that brings joy to the user, I see nothing wrong with bringing that ethos to other languages. You yourself acknowledge the impact it had on the development of JavaScript.

We in the Ruby community will keep innovating, and you keep hoping that we'll stop, and we'll see which happens.

This whole story seems like pretty poor form. You based your business, in part, on a closed-source product, failed to test your multi-platform product on... any of the other platforms you planned on releasing it for, and then wrote up a lengthy blog post blaming the author of same closed-source product for failing to address your pet issue, as if your business being dependent upon it being fixed should somehow be his concern.

Fantastic work! Thanks for sharing it with the community. I'm excited to check this out further.