speak_on

Just to wrap this up. Is your professional opinion that techniques like antialiasing/oversampling/etc and any sample rate above 44.1 kHz are essentially an industry-wide scam and the perceived benefits are not true?

And since there are no double-blind studies supporting this tech, both using and adding any of these features to your software would only be propagating this scam further? I.e. far more than just lecturing "about stuff that isn't true" this actually physically implements features that are not true?.. OK, at least you are staying consistent.

(Also, looking forward to you discovering that there are not many double-blind studies supporting the "delusion" that the effect of a low pass filter is real and not just something we can measure but can't hear.)

This is a more philosophical take… And I totally agree with you. I mix at 16/44.1 just for the record. I do not buy into the idea of gold plated connectors or 96 kHz mixing. My point was never about quality - I can hear the difference (the point!), doesn't mean for me personally > 44.1 is "better" or "worse".

To your main point: yes, all artifacts are just our learned, cultural, developed preferences. In the exact same way major/minor thirds were considered dissonant just a few hundred years ago - it's all a learned perception, not an absolute judgment.

I would go even further, doesn't matter whether people perceive aliasing as a major issue, it's no different from the U47 "warmth". You can't afford this, probably, as a software developer in a way, but at the most fundamental level any sound's - or artifact's - judgment is based on our our current diagram of "sounds nice" vs "sounds bad".

Hm, no. The discussion was never about analog artifacts vs AD conversion artifacts. Both are present. And not sure why you use "artifacts", do you not believe the artifacts are real? How can the lowpass filter not introduce artifacts?

And absolutely - I blind tested coverters extensively. Mbox2, Black Lion Audio upgraded converters, UA, Prism.

Ha! OK I take that back.

Firstly, it's an amazing experience to randomly interact with people like you - I love and use your software. Hats off and thanks for what you offered to the industry!

But secondly, your statement makes even less sense to me: obviously artifacts do add up. Yes, not linearly, like any complex audio in general. But the more tracks with artifacts I have, the more artifacts I have overall. It's not like they cancel each other (outside of normal frequency cancellation).

I don't. Do you? I am not a researcher. Saying that, do you have a double-blind study handy on MP3 256 vs 320 actual audible differences? If not, can you yourself hear the difference? If you can - it might be an illusion.

Other than the top engineers in the industry. This is a discussion that always ends up in the "double-blind study" vs actual real engineers working in the industry.

Got it. Grammy voters love Collier's mixes. What about Tony Maserati? He can clearly tell the difference between 44.1 and 88.2. If your argument is that these engineers can't hear the difference - you are going to be disappointed. They can. Even Dave Pensado who mixes at 16/44.1, does that because he rejects the idea, he can hear the difference according to him.

Ok dude, you obviously never recorded anything. Twelve mics on a drum kit, 60 tracks of rhythm guitars, several bass guitar layers, vocals, backing vocals, electric organ, percussions, saxophone solo. Do you think recording them at 44.1 somehow creates a shared "cloud-based" aliasing artifact that I store in S3?

The central point is that AD conversion can and will introduce artifacts. DA process wil intrduce more artifacts. The "imperfect" is a huge range and AD/DA converters play a role in that. We are not talking about "golden cables" bs here, conversion does introduce measurable artifacts in the audio path. The more tracks you record the more artifacts you have. Can everyone hear them? Definitely no. Can they be heard - yes, I can hear the difference between an old Digidesign interface and Grace Design interface.

Genereally very low for a single track? What about 200 tracks? Badly written synthesis, or badly recorded live instruments, or bounced and re-bounced dozens of times... we are not talking about the quality-defining aspect here. You can produce an excellent mix on KRKs connected directly to a MacBook.

This space is not driven by a single precise formula. 48/96 kHz helps some engineers to produce better sounding mixes. Can everyone hear the extended range of Adam tweeters? Probably not. But some can, and they benefit from that. Even if there is no double-blind study to prove this in absolute terms.

Mixing process often involves hundreds of tracks, and if each introduces aliasing, this can become a problem. Some engineers do swear by "the final mix is 16/44.1 so why mix at a different resolution?" mantra - that's fine too.

Absolutely! All these examples have imperfect audio paths - that is the point.

Would you agree that a trained human could identify artifacts produced by an imperect conversion process? If you lean "yes", then that's your answer: AD/DA is not a Rust function perfectly implementing the Nyquist theorem, it's a collection of physical components many of which introduce artifacts into the audio path. This thread is not about the theory of human hearing, the electronic components are literally imperfect.