phaedrus044
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Comment · 5 months ago
Comment · 5 months ago
UPDATE
The feedback that I got from a lot of you was, what about all the existing story frameworks that are out there - be it Aristotle's Poetics, The heroes Journey, Dan Harmon's Story Circle - and there are 23 of them.
So I took each of them, mapped their beats to this notation to see what that looks like. So now we can do a comparative of those beats in the notation that we developed.
http://arc.quanten.co/archetype/frameworks
it is interesting that these 23 frameworks, pretty much map to 10 of the archetypes that we spotted in successful films, which means there are atleast 8 more (we spotted a total of 18 so far) that are working archetypes, that just haven't been formalized yet with a framework
At the least, this becomes a good repository for folks to reference the various story frameworks that exist.
Thanks everyone for your inputs. It was greatly helpful in shaping this.
Comment · 5 months ago
"Have you tried translating these monosyllable words (ga, ma, pa, etc) into English?"
There is a toggle on the top that goes from Swaras to Solfrege - which is the western notation for music.
There is a floating window now that shows what the mapping is between each register and the note, so that it becomes easier for folks to understand the correlation.
"I wonder what the cross over will be like when you do 'western' film and media."
All of the 405 films that you see there is Hollywood films. The list of the movies that constitute this data is listed here : http://arc.quanten.co/browse
"You might want to have a way to tie this to something that the user has already seen as an intro."
If you want to see how this breaks down, We've put out two sample content - one is Anora (which won the Oscar for Best picture last year) and in terms of TV Shows we have also mapped the Pilot episode of The Pitt (though the data used for the analysis was only films)
you can access the complete breakdown for the film and series here:
http://arc.quanten.co/showcase/film http://arc.quanten.co/showcase/series
"I'm interested in why you all wanted to do this project at all."
I used to host a filmmakers club in my open floor office for a few years and used to listen to filmmakers talking about how they make films. While I come from the software world where everything can be A/B tested and there is a beta, test, feedback, iterate, release cycle, it felt odd that films lack any of it - and it is pretty much a hit or miss. And unlike software, you don't get a chance to re-release a film. And the lack of any meaningful audience data and structure data, felt like a huge gap - one that artistic sectors like music and culinary arts have quite well bridged, but the visual story telling world hasnt. That's where the wheels started to churn - that was almost 11 years ago.
Comment · 5 months ago
I've been thinking about this for a few years now (used to host a filmmakers club in my office and listen to them talk about storytelling and the challenges) and have been working on this for more than 2 years now. There is a lot of work that has gone into this.
Thank you for your kind words.
Comment · 5 months ago
Usually when you are defining the character arcs, you'd set the goals, drive motivation for each of them. At the end of the story is about the characters. We have something called Character Presence, that does that breakdown, to ensure that's solid. The story is the wrapper around that, setting momentum and pace.
You are spot on.
Comment · 5 months ago
"story' is one of the more powerful things in our world."
Absolutely. It is the engine for civilization and the operating system for human belief.
Comment · 5 months ago
Awesome. Will check it out. Thank you.
This predominantly seems to be around character arcs (how a character evolves over a story) vs the overall narrative arc? Its interesting neverthless.
Comment · 5 months ago
"Narrative structure is composed of two main layers: Macro Beats (the overall roadmap or big-picture structure) and Micro Beats (the minute-by-minute actions and emotional changes within scenes)"
You win too :)
Comment · 5 months ago
Aristotle's Poetics was / is one of the oldest story structures. It doesnt get used as much anymore though. It was also quite simple right? I remember there being two variants - one was quite simply - Beginning, Middle and the end. And the other was a two part storytelling structure of Complication and Denouement. Most film stories are 5 act structures these days - audiences expect a lot more sophistication, with atleast a 2 arc entanglement.
A lot of hollywood's story telling circles around two predominant structures - the hero and saving the cat (or damsel). As of late, that trope isnt quite working as much. A majority of the films that are made are of the genre drama, not action/adventure the two structures struggle.
I have a copy of John's book and have read it. Been down this rabbit hole for a few years now :) Thanks for sharing though. appreciate it.
Comment · 5 months ago
If you aren't a filmmaker that can be tough. Filmmakers think in beats - for everyone else it is like looking at the skeleton and trying to guess the shape of the animal.
Check the sample page for Anora, it might help : http://arc.quanten.co/showcase/film
(scroll down to the bottom to see the narrative beat structure)
So insight: Polti's insight isnt really useful as a story structure. However it does label all the possible dramatic moments. So it doesnt care much for introducing the characters or how their life is resolved, but talks how about transition in the middle happens - so how act 2, act 3 play out.
I took all the 36 situations and mapped it. It predominantly maps to 4 beats. Which isnt surprising because it is the middle drama.
This is quite useful for writers to analyse - especially if they have a "your act 2 is sagging" note and need to look at how to fix it. Definitely useful as a prescription layer. Thanks for helping me discover that.