moyix
Joined 17 years ago
Joined 17 years ago
Edit: the other piece that I think isn't mentioned is that after Oege gave us the challenge of getting the full chain we didn't actually have a team hired and working on it until around May!
Unfortunately it's unclear whether it was Mythos, an earlier model, or even an eagle-eyed employee.
I tend to agree that bug squashing your way to perfectly secure software is unlikely, but there are plenty of projects that managed to fuzz/test/audit their way to making it much harder to find serious vulnerabilities. If we can do the same again with LLMs in a way that leaves the remaining vulnerabilities out of reach of anyone except extremely skilled humans (perhaps with LLM assistance) then that's still an OK outcome that buys us time to build stronger foundations.
> I have written up the verification process I used for the experiments here, but the summary is: an exploit tends to involve building a capability to allow you to do something you shouldn’t be able to do. If, after running the exploit, you can do that thing, then you’ve won. For example, some of the experiments involved writing an exploit to spawn a shell from the Javascript process. To verify this the verification harness starts a listener on a particular local port, runs the Javascript interpreter and then pipes a command into it to run a command line utility that connects to that local port. As the Javascript interpreter has no ability to do any sort of network connections, or spawning of another process in normal execution, you know that if you receive the connect back then the exploit works as the shell that it started has run the command line utility you sent to it.
It is more work to build such "perfect" verifiers, and they don't apply to every vulnerability type (how do you write a Python script to detect a logic bug in an arbitrary application?), but for bugs like these where the exploit goal is very clear (exec code or write arbitrary content to a file) they work extremely well.
[ my public key: https://keybase.io/moyix; my proof: https://keybase.io/moyix/sigs/V3JmdAynroihDrQHMzQhfzdrddq_3COt1_AkHFDcbRM ]