luisml77

I mean I was going to say that was ridiculous but now that I think about it more, its possible that the models can be trained to say spy on government data by calling a tool to send the information to China. And some RL might not wipe off that behavior.

I doubt current models from China are trained to do smart spying / injecting sneaky tool calls. But based on my Deep Learning experience with the models both training and inference, it's definitely possible to train a model to do this in a very subtle and hard to detect way...

So your point is valid and I think they should specify the base model for security concerns, or conduct safety evaluations on it before passing it to sensitive customers

Yes, exactly! Finally someone who understands this.

I am prepared and want to discuss seriously every one of my view points. The initial comment was just the abstract. I am extremely confident in my world view about Deep Learning and cognitive ability. And the reason for that is because I generally try to avoid doing what you just did, that is, reading what other people think regarding this subject. I instead choose to ground my views in real world experiments and information I have gathered and experienced. This primarily consists of an enormous amount of experimentation with Deep Learning models, both inference and training. My views come mostly from that. I don't recite Andrej Karpathy or Ilya Sutskever. I don't even care about their opinions for the most part. I experiment with the models to such an extreme degree that I understand very well how they behave and their limitations. And I believe if you are going to create a breakthrough, this is the only way to do so.

> an LLM or any other computational neural net is no different from a program like that

I don't think so. A program doesn't exhibit highly complex abstract thought in a very high-dimensional space.

> It’s executing deterministic instructions, like a machine, because it is a machine

Its true that LLMs are deterministic. But do you really think that the magic behind the brain is only due to temperature and randomness? Do you really think that non-deterministic behavior is the magic ingredient that makes up what we are referring to as consciousness? I could inject noise into an LLM at every parameter dynamically during inference. The output would come out just fine. After all, LLMs are high dimensional and can handle a little noise. Would it really be more conscious after that? You can find experiments where people remove entire layers of the LLM and it still works fine. A little noise would be even less harmful than that.

You see, when I'm arguing, I'm not citing what some other person said. I at most will cite experiments from other people and their results. When I am contradicting your arguments, I present you a reality you can go and try in the real world and verify. You can go verify yourself LLMs exhibit complex high-dimensional thought. You can verify yourself that if you inject noise dynamically through inference on every parameter, you still get coherent output from the LLM.

So, if you are willing to continue this discussion, I ask of you that you present some sort of "probing" of the real world and the respective "reaction" of the same real world as arguments. That is what finding the truth means.

And lastly. I am presenting a Theory. This means I believe that my points form a foundation that makes my theory stronger than yours. It means I have better evidence that backs it up. It doesn't mean I have proved what consciousness is. Instead, it primarily means I can make more accurate predictions using my theory on real world scenarios involving artificial and biological neural networks. And my personal experience shows me that is true.

> you would have just trained a new model instead of fine tuning

As if it doesn't cost tens of millions to pre-train a model. Not to mention the time it takes. Do you want them to stall progress for no good reason?

This is the problem with this Hacker News platform. Who is downvoting me instead of discussing my points?

This platform has the EXACT same problem as Reddit. People can just silence you before you had a chance of discussion. What a waste of fucking time. Instead of improving our world models of reality by having discussions, you can just silence others because you disagree. Remove the fucking downvote button! Just remove it, jesus fucking christ. Who thought this button was a good fucking idea?

I'm nearly out of this garbage. The same way I left Reddit long ago. X is the only platform that allows free speech.

My point still remains, none of these projects require tens of thousands of paid developers to exist. They also don't provide nearly as much value as Android does. Billions of smartphones use Android. Linux is not even used by regular people. And its precisely because it didn't have the same level of development MacOS and Windows had with many orders of magnitude more PAID engineers working on those

> they threatened to choke all competition and trap and rent-seek the entire world

They did so legally and didn't break any rules. This is the game of capitalism, and the fact is, IOS and Android are extremely well built and developed, and no open-source project would ever come close to the hundreds of thousands of paid engineers that built IOS and Android.

You can either have capitalism and IOS and Android, or you can have communism and a society that is 10+ years behind in development. Do you really want to give up IOS 26 for a blackberry?