flootch

Regarding drivers, I feel there is an upside to the horrible treatment Uber doles out to drivers which is that Uber wants turnover, wants a driver to work for a year or so, and fears long term drivers who might have more of a claim to employment or be more invested in a lawsuit.

> Obnoxiousness seems to be a characteristic quite ingrained into elite hacker culture

That was not my experience with the elite developers I have known. I find that behavior endemic and distributed like a bell curve throughout society.

It's not dark out at night, it's just that the earth has blocked the sun.

I didn't say Lyft was better (though it seems clear from settled lawsuits and FTC fines and police reports that Uber is much worse) the takeaway is that engineers are responsible for the output of their employers.

Engineers used to understand that and would debate taking positions in the military industrial complex, and would discuss the ethics of whistleblowing.

Go through my comments the past few days and witness today's engineers basically saying "Uber has been good to me, I am not responsible for the other parts"

Drivers have many anecdotes of:

+ initial bonuses not paid + hourly guarantees not paid

New upfront pricing allows Uber to change prices on every single ride (implicit surge) while not paying driver's surge rates

The FTC has fined Uber for telling drivers they could earn $90K a year driving

Uber tells drivers it takes a flat 25% commission, but booking fees turn that commission into 40%.

Uber cheats drivers.

actually it's the drivers that add all the value, the devs are the folks that enable the cheating. Susan Fowler was responsible for keeping the trains running on time.

How many laws does Uber have to break, how many drivers does Uber have to cheat, how many assaults on riders and drivers have to be committed, how much predatory pricing does Uber have to commit, how many labor laws does Uber have to flout, how much full time jobs does Uber have to undermine, how many people, riders, pedestrians and drivers does Uber have to kill

before this generation of engineers looks beyond the high tech goodness and high salaries they personally achieve to see the poison you enable by staying on with Uber?

ethics/shmethics it's a great job at an important company!

Thanks, very interesting article on how we got there.

Thank god for now that you are in error about that:

> That’s the average amount of time, the company said, that users spend each day on its Facebook, Instagram and Messenger platforms (and that’s not counting the popular messaging app WhatsApp).

So that's not Americans it's users, and it's not FB, but I am hopeful that it's Messenger, WhatsApp and Instagram, which I perceive for now are "task" based communications and sharing apps, not the "spam my friends and family with my political beliefs" stuff I don't want in nearly the amount that FB shovels at me.

You had me scared there for a moment, but I bet you are more right than wrong in your basic point It's probably the prime source of news in the western world. This is not to be underestimated.

Q: What are the ethical implications of an engineer taking on employment with Uber given what we know as factual regarding Uber's behavior and given the high demand for software engineers in today's economy?

Q: If you do not have family, and are reasonably healthy, what are the ethical implications of retaining a position at Uber and not resigning?

Eric couldn't find a single bankster guilty of anything in the 2008 meltdown, and he wasn't able to find anything wrong with Fast & Furious, so I have to disagree with you, his appointment will certainly provide the best outcome for Uber.

Laws, minimum wage and ethical treatment of employees are a huge barrier to innovation, and I for one am glad Uber has ripped that barrier down.