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Thank you for reading and sharing your interesting story and your experiences! I am also struggling with what you describe, and this is why I wanted to play around with the notion of hack and hacker. The word in itself is no holy cow to me. I want to get better at just 'messing around'. And in this very limited sense, I do think kids should inspire us, and that a connection to hack-ish things exists. It's about a mentality, not only skills and knowledge. I lack your vast experience (I am a quite old junior front-end developer), so you can imagine what I feel when showing what I've done. Why should one be embarrassed? If you worked professionally for years on some application and had lots of experience and the app sucked, perhaps it would be motivated (or more reasonable to think, the team or management had issues) - but otherwise? I love this sentence: 'a quick job that produces what is needed, but not well.' I read it is a description of a mentality, a quite amateur-sh DIY spirit. Or at least it was fun to play around with the meaning in that way.

btw. your citrine-lang.org seems like an extremely cool project!

Hmm. I liked your other reply. I don't agree with you upon this one. I write:

> It's sound that our children have us, adults, as role models, that they are inspired by us, by what we do, what we say, and by how we act. However, wiIt's sound that our children have us, adults, as role models, that they are inspired by us, by what we do, what we say, and by how we act. However, with regard to creativity and hacking, you don't have to spend much time building with lego, drawing, playing and discussing to realize that you won't match your seven-year-old in terms of getting things done, solving problems related to creative tasks.th regard to creativity and hacking, you don't have to spend much time building with lego, drawing, playing and discussing to realize that you won't match your seven-year-old in terms of getting things done, solving problems related to creative tasks. [...]

> My general point is that sometimes we're so focused on producing (2) 'an incredibly good, and perhaps very time-consuming, piece of work that produces exactly what is needed' that we fail in (1) '[producing] what is needed, but not well' (and thus end up failing in general). In this respect, we should take inspiration from our seven-year-olds.

But what you insinuate in your other reply may still be correct! Perhaps this usage makes the notion of a hack, hacker, hacking empty? I believe it's important to be able to say 'I am wrong'. And perhaps I am here. I have not decided what I think yet.

Haha! I enjoyed your elegant reply. And yes, you're quite possibly right. When writing it I had many doubts, and they have still not left me. Perhaps this text did should not have been published.

Glad to hear so!

About the later part: yes, I actually agree!

Some people contribute to the Web with opinions using cutesy one-liners, some people attempt to explore subject matters in articles and thus sometimes fail, sometimes succeed.

Aren't all definitions arbitrary? If we would only go by how words are used 'in general', who would want to be a 'hacker'? ;) And I don't think the definition of 'hacker' in The Jargon File is just... arbitrary in the context of Hacker News? However, I am guilty as charged of making a very free, playful interpretation. Also, I am guilty as charged for trying to have a title that makes some people curious. I am sorry you did not like the post, but that's life! Cheers and thank you very much for reading!

I agree, but you don't have to save 7 years old in the same way. :)

Your comment made me think, and I think my view may be all to hidden (between the lines) in my post.

I added this passage, which is more on-point, which I stand by:

My general point is that sometimes we're so focused on producing (2) 'an incredibly good, and perhaps very time-consuming, piece of work that produces exactly what is needed' that we fail in (1) '[producing] what is needed, but not well' (and thus end up failing in general). In this respect, we should take inspiration from our seven-year-olds. In the best of worlds, we could take inspiration from them with regard to point 1, mentor them to respecting point 2 while making sure not to smother the essence of point 1 - not in them, nor in ourselves.

Also, I am not fully 'serious' with this post! I just thought it was cute, while also containing some interesting points. :)

I am very grateful for your comment! Cheers!

No worries. Also, I don't count on people clicking on all links. Further also, I totally understand what you mean: you want everyone to see it!

I actually link to [0] in my text in the end when I say we should 'rethink education'. :) I did not know of the full talk, and I am very grateful for your link [1]!

Thanks for the response! And I agree, it's like some sites just don't have content. I have nothing against videos, images, CSS, and JavaScript (hey, I am professionally a frontend developer :)) but often it is just not motivated.

In a way, I think this trend is downgrading to people if you can say that in English. Most people are not stupid, they see through it - I think, or I hope. It would be ok (even extremely motivated) with spectacular imagery and so on if it for instance was a Design site, but quite a few sites where there is no such link seems to think that visitors can't 'see' that they have nonsense Stock-images instead of real content.

Nicely put btw: 'sensory overload'.