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I don't think there <whatever> engineers. Someone is either an engineer or not. An engineer can build a model for any system, then change the system within that model. So we are on the same page.

None of those are same level as an engineer. Those are technician level vocations order of magnitude "simpler".

I love creating fun things and solving challenging problems no-one has solved. I do not really "enjoy" actual programming. Andnever did, since starting it 30 years ago when I was 9.

"Enjoying programming" for me as an engineer/computer scientist is akin to mathematician studying topology, enjoying idk, arithmetic or solving quadratic equations". Whether someone actua, lly gets dopamine from it strictly personal but in the grand scheme of things those are trivial things below me.

Sadly lots of "programmers" are really just "technicians" that happened to pick up skills in some niche and didn't approach computational problems from first principles.

That doesn't change what I said. Work can be both primitive and life threatening. And the main message is that anyone calling themselves an engineer by definition is should be as capable as "technician" level workers.

I mean, from my perspective as an engineer, electricians’ work is just extremely primitive. I do not mean this as a disrespect - its hard and important work, but its on order of magnitude simpler mentally.

Of course many software "engineers" are nothing more than plumbers/electricians with data and that cohort is being quickly pushed out by AI. And our industry in general has conflated technicians and engineers which makes this worse.

But fundamentally, engineers job is to model the problem from the first principles and then apply that model to whatever problem. Technicians operate within the model, so I postulate anyone considering themselves an engineer is fundamentally a more capable electrician, plumber, carpenter, whatever than any master tradesperson.

I'm not speaking as someone that changed an outlet once and thinks they are now an "electrician". I have two decades of extensive property maintenance experience. I do everything myself and since my state does not allow pulling permits without licensure, I hold myself to commercial standards minimally. So EMT, MC, trapezes and gutters, no romex crap. Similarly, I will likely outsolder and outthread at least the current generation of "plumbers" that only know how to press things.

What I'm saying is extremely evident in any electricians' forum where its obvious that electricians just do not understand why is NEC written certain way. Then there' usually some "oracle" on said forums "deciphering" what the code is, despite it all being a pretty basic and coherent spec.

I feel like the power of the approach presented here is that it gives a model a proper "language" to describe computations directly vs moving tape silliness.

I foresee this to be the path moving forward - giving AI models understanding of the computation directly(as well as compositional rules) This feels like a short path towards total software in many areas.