venaoy
Joined 12 years ago
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Recent submissions
Comment · 11 years ago
Comment · 11 years ago
You attach too much importance to CC chargeback mechanisms. I am a typical American consumer and in 20 years doing about 5,000 credit card transactions I have never had to issue a single chargeback at all. So I know for a fact that I would be willing to use Bitcoin for all its advantages if that meant giving up the ability to charge back. Consider this: credit card fees which are passed to customers by inflating prices by ~2% probably indirectly cost me north of $20,000 over my 20 years of use. I could have saved $20,000 and I would have been totally fine with the lack of chargeback mechanisms in Bitcoin. Even if I end up being scammed one day by a non-reversible $1000 Bitcoin transaction, I would still be $19,000 financially ahead with Bitcoin.
Also, CC chargebacks are far from being perfect. In many cases the customer has no recourse for fraud. For example you cannot chargeback a transaction made more than 60 days ago. Some fraudulent merchants stall shipping (eg. claim delays, issues, ship the wrong thing, etc) for 60 days specifically to exploit this fact and exploit the fact customers don't know about this 60-day chargeback limit. Or if your PIN code is stolen and a fraudulent transaction is made with the PIN code, you will typically be held liable (check your CC fine print, for example: "If your Password or PIN is used in such a transaction, you will be liable for the full debt" from http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/common/pdf/borrowing/revolving_...)
Don't forget that despite the lack of chargebacks, you still have all the other usual recourses available to you if you are defrauded after paying in bitcoins: small court claims, send a complaint to the FTC or BBB, etc. But the fact chargeback mechanisms are rarely needed in the first place, and have various limitations (60-day, PIN stolen, etc) indicates that Bitcoin doesn't need them to be reasonably successful as a payment technology.
Comment · 11 years ago
> I just described it in one short declarative sentence.
Except you forgot: you have to type the expiration date, the cardholder's name, and sometimes the full billing address. I will repeat again: typing the CC billing info is not simple enough and this is the number one reason e-commerce sales conducted on mobile are not as high as sales conducted on the desktop.
> bitcoin requires typing
No. It sounds like you have never made a Bitcoin purchase. Typically the merchant's site launches your local wallet app via a "bitcoin:" URI pre-populated with an address and an amount -> click OK to confirm transaction -> done.
Comment · 11 years ago
> For a CC sure I might have to grab the card out of my wallet and punch it in, but my numbers are pretty much memorized by now and it's beyond simple.
"beyond simple", really? A lot of people would disagree with you. The inconvenience of typing in the CC billing info is the number one reason why fewer sales take place on mobile than on desktop.
And it is one of the main reasons why people stick with a store they know have their CC saved (eg. Amazon) as opposed to buying on some random site where they know it is going to be a PITA to type in all the billing info.
Bitcoin solves this payment friction for a first-time shopper at a given shop, and that's a big deal. You should know this. This is why you yourself admit preferring using Paypal over CC because Paypal also solves first-time shopping friction.
Comment · 11 years ago
There is a huge difference between 90% (or even 99%) and a 100% eclipsed Sun. People in Norway should really travel to the Faroe Islands to experience totality :)
Comment · 11 years ago
> who are mostly drug dealers or other criminals
This is false. And you have no source to prove it. I know a lot of early adopters through various channels. They are geeks, crypto nerds, cypherpunks. Think guys like Hal Finney, Wei Dai, etc. Nice guys who like to explore new ideas.
Maybe you are just upset that you "missed the boat" on bitcoin or something. But you've got to stop believing every Bitcoin user is a criminal.
Comment · 11 years ago
> "The insurance covers..."
This statement is correct. But do we need insurance on negligence? No. The cash you carry in your pocket is not covered by insurance yet it doesn't prevent it from being reasonably useful/successful. I make the comparison to let you understand Bitcoin doesn't need insurance against negligence to be reasonably useful/successful.
> the entire network was shutdown in early 2013.
No it was not. The correct forked path of the block chain never stopped running during this incident. That's how a fork is always resolved: one path dies, the other continues to live undisturbed.
> Are they shutting down the network to force every enhancement,
No. There is a process to introduce changes without disrupting the network at all: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Softfork This is how P2SH was added with zero disruption to the network.
> Your insistence that we only discuss the technical
You misunderstood me. It is of course OK to discuss other aspects: social, financial, etc. I was merely pointing out you should drop the personal attacks, as they make you look childish and as they degrade the quality of your comments.
> your stubbornness in ignoring how currencies and payment processors work...
Once again I don't want to ignore this. So far I have replied to all your arguments with logical counter-arguments. Let's keep the discussion civil.
Comment · 11 years ago
> how often do you want to pay for something that you don't care whether you'll actually get?
It is not that I don't care, but I estimate the probability the merchant is fraudulent is low enough that I don't feel the need to absolutely have the protection of the chargeback mechanism. I think this is true for the majority of the cases: MOST merchants are honest, MOST disputes can be resolved without chargebacks.
> Your bank covers you if they are though.
But it can be a real pain in the butt. I had to have a credit card replaced because the number and billing info of the previous one was stolen. I had to wait days to receive the new credit card. I had to re-set up all the bills I had set up to be automatically paid with the previous card to now be paid by the new card, etc.
> What's the specific advantage that would make people want to give bitcoin?
Bitcoin enthusiasts like to spread the technology, so they give bitcoins away to friends and family. But that's not my main point. My main point is that as Bitcoin is used more and more, it ends up in the hands of more and more people. This gives it organic growth: it gets more accepted, it is more transacted, it gains more value, etc.
> Most reputable card issuers will cover you for longer than the contract says. And even if not, 60 days of cover is still much better than the 0 days you get with bitcoin.
Still, some fraud scenarios are completely eliminated with Bitcoin. I pay a fraudulent restaurant with a CC that gets skimmed, I get to deal with the hassles of having to have the card replaced, potentially having my credit score damaged, etc. I pay a fraudulent restaurant with bitcoins, I know the restaurant can do nothing to steal the bitcoins remaining in my wallet.
Or I pay Dell with bitcoins instead of a credit card, and I don't have to care if their systems get hacked and my CC number stolen.
> Again, you're contractually liable but in practice reputable banks cover you at least the first time. Whereas if your bitcoin private keys are stolen, the money is gone and you'll never get it back.
Private keys can be very well protected and almost impossible to steal if you use a hardware wallet. And Bitcoin completely eliminates other fraud risks (see my examples above). So overall the tradeoffs of Bitcoin are worthwhile.
> Who's offering FDIC-protected bitcoin accounts?
Every day, millions of Americans use financial instruments that are not FDIC insured, yet that doesn't prevent the success of such instruments:
Comment · 11 years ago
Yes it is legal:
"Beginning January 27, 2013, merchants in the United States and U.S. Territories will be permitted to impose a surcharge on consumers when they use a credit card." http://usa.visa.com/personal/get-help/checkout-fees.jsp
Comment · 11 years ago
> As a buyer, why would I use bitcoin internationally when I can't reverse my transaction if they don't deliver?
Sometimes reversibility just doesn't matter. The merchant might be 100% trustworthy (like Amazon). Or as another example I once rented a VPS for a month from Russia. I paid in bitcoins because it was $3 or $4 so I simply didn't care if the VPS provider didn't deliver (submitting a chargeback request for such a low amount is not worth my time), but at the same time I didn't fully trust the merchant with my credit card info (how securely do they protect/encrypt it? could they be hacked? etc).
> Since we don't gift each other bitcoins, Example 3 isn't a problem.
You completely avoided the main point of my example #3. And that's very stupid for you to say this. I gave some to my family, I could say this proves you wrong. Even Coinbase set up a page to give bitcoins last Christmas because it's common for enthusiasts to give some to friends & family: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/105032873402/give-the-gift-of-...
> Example 4 is laughable because in the last week, four Bitcoin exchanges were hacked (or robbed by the owners - still TBD) and people who had their coins in those exchanges lost it all.
This is completely irrelevant to example #4. My point was that a Bitcoin transaction cryptographically authorizes only the transfer of a specific amount to a specific address, and nothing else. In contrast a CC transaction lets a fraudulent merchant place any charge for any amount at any time. This is a substantial undeniable security advantage that Bitcoin has over credit cards.
> Skimming CC numbers is for sure an issue for credit cards, but as someone who has had their credit card skimmed, my issuer locked my account within 2 hours of fraudulent activity, called me, and eventually gave me my money back.
You were lucky. But your cute story doesn't mean credit card fraud is a solved problem. In many cases the customer has NO RECOURSE for fraud. For example you cannot chargeback a transaction made more than 60 days ago. Some fraudulent merchants pretend to act legitimately but stall shipping (eg. claim delays, issues, etc) for 60 days specifically to exploit this fact and exploit the fact customers don't know about this condition. Or if your PIN code is stolen and a fraudulent transaction is made with the PIN code, you will typically be held liable (check your credit card issuer's fine print, for example: http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/common/pdf/borrowing/revolving_...)
> How many Mt. Gox users got their money back?
Give your money to a fraudster and he will run away with it, no matter if its bitcoins or dollars. How much money was permanently lost to the Bernard Madoff ponzi scheme?
Comment · 11 years ago
The world's simplest reasons why you might pay something using bitcoins is simply when this is the only way, or cheapest way, or safest way to make a transaction.
Example #1: some merchants are hit really hard with fraud, such as intangible goods paid by international credit card transactions. So hard that they decided to stop selling internationally. These merchants discover that Bitcoin re-enables them to sell internationally because Bitcoin completely solves the fraud problem for them (since transactions are irreversible). In that case, as an international customer of such a merchant, paying in Bitcoin is your only option.
Example #2: some merchants offer discounts when paying in Bitcoin (because they don't incur credit card fees). So it is in your interest to pay in Bitcoin: you don't have to pay the fees from exchanging coins for fiat, and you don't have to pay the indirect credit card fees that the merchant would make you cover (via the absence of a discount).
Example #3: as Bicoin's adoption grows, more and more people end up having bitcoins in their hands, like your nephew giving you $50 worth of coins for Christmas. What's the easiest for you to use them? Setting up an account at an exchange (and incurring the associated hassles and fees when selling), or just spending them directly? Of course in this case you would want to spend them directly.
Example #4: say you are travelling out of town and paying for a meal in a restaurant that you suspect might be skimming credit cards... do you pay using a credit card or bitcoins? Using Bitcoin here would be much safer. It has all the advantages of credit cards (and more) without the inconvenience and danger of handling cash (losing it, getting robbed, no ability to "back up" cash, etc). Hardware bitcoin wallets have especially an insane opportunity to innovate in this space (wrt. security and ease of use).
Comment · 11 years ago
> you have to use an exchange to buy the coins
No you don't. You can sell stuff on Craigslist for bitcoins. You can mine. You can buy coins in person from a friend/from localbitcoins. You can receive remittance from your oversea family in bitcoins. You can buy them from a Bitcoin ATM. Etc. There are tons of ways to acquire bitcoins without "having" to use an exchange.
Comment · 11 years ago
I meant to write 21 miles (not 23 miles) round trip:
"Detroiter James Robertson, 56, walks about 21 miles a day"
So he would only have to bike 21 miles per day.
Comment · 11 years ago
> Okay. Fair enough. I concede that efficiency is important and that SPDY / HTTP/2 can improve upon it.
Great, I appreciate you recognize this.
> Why include tons of small resources on your page if they're not necessary?
But it _is_ necessary. In every single of the examples I gave in my reply to dlubarov, it is necessary:
- There are 100+ small images, icons, etc and all are displayed on the nytimes.com homepage.
- All of the thumbnail pictures of ebay items on a listing are displayed to the user.
- The 50+ maps tiles downloaded when browsing Google Maps are all necessary.
- Etc
You seem to fail to realize that in 2015, not every web page can be dumbed down to a blob of static HTML and no more than 2-3 images. The modern web is complex. We needed a protocol that can serve it efficiently.
Comment · 11 years ago
> The linked benchmark is flawed, as dlubarov noted above.
No, I already replied to him. You and him should spend some time looking at the Chrome network console visiting some of the top500 sites. It is very common for sites to be exactly like that: tons of small requests for small resources.
IOW: you would have no problem paying Amazon in bitcoins, because you trust them.