szasamasa

if you have to distribute via website or alternative app store, everybody can always have a known person to be responsible for piracy, in addition, it is just as easy to block as apps in apple's app store

sony is not yet a gatekeeper, might be in the future... apple does not have to sell in Europe, if it does, and big enough (no need to be monopoly) to be a gatekeeper, law and rules say they operate a critical infrastructure/platform in the EU economy and hence they cannot tax developers (a country has such powers)

the question is not whether Apple has to change but a question might be why? this is the field of monopolistic power and competition law... monopoly profit is not inherently bad, can help innovation but along the way we figured out it is probably best to curb this power in the long run

Apple had its time of their life and to be honest, I see little meaningful innovation in the last 5+ years, however, they suppress competition and innovation in the economy, controlling a gateway between innovative developers and users

another aspect is consumer prices... should consumers get lower prices or let apple take monopolistic tax from them? of course lower prices seems to be better nd it is one goal... however, we should and we do allow success and monopolistic profit by each and every big innovation, in the beginning and Apple has already had that

it is a bit like an economy supports patent law and competition law at the same time

most people are motivated by financial success and most company pay research and innovation for potential monopolistic profit and this works and it is protected! however, competition law or new forms of it like DMA kicks in later on

it is like you innovate, use patents, get big money but if you grow big you are not allowed to become like all companies become if not controlled: shifting from competitive innovative power to a country like taxing power

I think it is correct that we need competition law too, if we really think about our past, economics, history, and what motivates people

I think it is non-obtrusive and the first time you have to learn it (on the site you first want to use standalone or googleing or somebody tells you who already knows)

after the first time, you just know it... I would bet 1m dollars if we made consumer group tests..

that is intuitive and easy to remember, I did not say easy to guess :)

maybe there are still no great web apps because Apple is still crippling web capabilities on a major platform and the status quo is still hiring mobile app developers because not technical managers copy each other to stay safe and users are used to native apps

nobody said that you have to allow possible great standalone UX on major platforms like iOS because tons of managers made the mistake to invest in web strategy because they trusted Apple to be nice and hence they have these great products already

first step is open all major platforms so that managers and developers see the web as a potential alternative to native app stores, then we will see much more great web apps in 1-2-3-5-10 years... I think microsoft made outlook a web app to have one code base, it is a very big step that capital strong companies make first because it is reimplementing same functionality first...

we want great web apps in the future, the web capabilities are already there, we need investment and good app programmers instead of web designers to see great web apps that build on the great web capabilities

the web capabilities are already there, you should study them... the great web apps not yet because Apple has been crippling them for over 10 years now and they have sole power over one of the major platforms

accepting the moderation, in my defense: I just saw I added a smiley at the end of the problematic sentence, which I actually probably did to remove sharpness but still being able to formulate myy strong conclusion/opinion

of course it is also possible to just argue against somebody with less emotions and being more polite, without saying such things which I will 100% try in the future! my personal style is also harsh but I never intend to be offensive and surely have zero joy in attacking, insulting or making other people small

harsh honesty is difficult to separate from attacks so it is legit to ban this style altogether

thanks for the analysis :)

I do not use and know good web apps in the application sense, in plenty of comments I argued it is the tech of the future because web designers are mainly not real programmers and hence bad in app programming.

I mentioned hover (I did not write it) as an example that was in my mind that they asked us years back whether we needed a mobile app or is it enough to have responsive website.

I am the opposite of power user of mobiles, I do everything on linux desktop, I hate 99% of websites. So now I "installed" hover again on my phone because I already de-installed it. It was 5 sec, I got a button, I pressed it, and signed in with my pass manager, having an authenticator app activated it was still a breeze. Most websites would have already lost me...

There I have a feeling of a website but I see everything clearly and I can use it effectively, change things, pay things etc. One thing that was annoying in the 2 minute test of mine is that a seemingly button like thing did not work, you had to click on the text which I smiled at.

For usability it was 8/10 for me which is great because most sites are 0-4...

This site demonstrates not that it is a web app in the greatness sense but that there are so many things you do not need a native mobile app for, thanks to the web which can deliver usable standalone UX even from traditional web designers (hover engineers seem to be clever minimalistic web designers, not really modern web app programmers).

What I can tell you, that good web programming is totally possible, it is a question of modern js, modern web api (so that you do not have to write things in js just call c++ or rust code that is implemented by very capable native app engineers), V8 optimization, most importantly good future web programmers vs. bad current web designers.

Yes, hover makes 70 requests, 5 mb on first load, it is an old school website but still works for me, even on mobile. It is not a bombastic app but capable to become a standalone UX on mobile (aka app) where I can easily use it for the use cases there are in the web domain management domain of services :)

Sorry but I do not really know actually what your point is. In a year or so you can take a look at my site, it will be the best web app you have ever seen. It is totally possible. If you wish I write you a c++ app that you want to die after using it and it will so bloated importing 10 million libraries that I actually never use that the compiler needs over a minute :) Still great performant c++ apps are possible.

Tell me your angle. Are you a native app developer for mobile and you fear learning new things? Even if you invested a lot in coding in a language, I think 95% what your actual market value or knowledge is not the concrete language skill but years of programming experience.

In addition, you can use webassembly for c++ code, on the backend you can use normal strongly typed native languages, the web is beautiful, complex but beautiful. What you see on current websites is a horror. In a way on hover.com too but usability is ok.

thanks for the details, you are probably right, then change linux to unix and chromium to blink in my comment, however, browser engines are all open source and they are the exact pitch perfect level to introduce competition

I am not so sure that chromium "kernel" or linux "kernel" ever become irrelevant... gecko or webkit maybe

even if only chromium engine stays, it is open source, if something goes wrong, you can fork or get back to gecko, webkit... we are all carbon based lifeforms, still there is great diversity I guess

why would we need to make so much effort to compete on browser engine level if it is so great that you cannot differentiate native to browser run programs?

I really do not understand what the point of your comments actually are... it is simply not true the browsers are not good for competition and I do not see what alternatives you suggest instead?

why is a browser more overbloated than windows?

it was meant to run applications, that is why V8 is developed and optimized like hell, that is why we have webassembly to port c++ programs (try stockfish on lichess, it is webassembly)

originally, the browser was not meant to run applications, modern browsers are... strong indicator for this is chromium V8 performance and webassembly and the evolving js language with modules and node.js on server side

jvm introduced a competition to c++ and java is still top language, a browser is a kind of a jvm... you can use kotlin and other languages to compile to jvm and you can use js and webassembly to write apps on browsers

my point is, this is the best platform to introduce competition to native apps on walled gardens

the walled garden is not the os or browser but the company behind a closed os platform or closed single browser

on iOS, you had both: closed OS and closed single webkit browser engine

on every other os platforms you have true browser choice... since chromium is open source, you can create not just your toy browser but one of the most powerful ones... you can download the source code and if it goes in a restrictive direction, everybody can fork the web standard friendly versions

it is open and powerful, that is why most companies give a shit about browsers but it is not difficult for the EU for example to hire great browser engineers and create a beautiful stron free browser from an appropriate chromium version if things turned bad

whereas there are only 2 mobile operating systems that really work, from 2 giant US companies

where it is much more difficult to introduce competition is creating alternative mobile OSs... and then what, developers should create apps for this additional one two with another codebase?

browsers are the perfect level to introduce competition, in a way blink, webkit and gecko are all open source and chromium has a stron focus on improving web capabilities, pushed by 2 giants too (Google, Microsoft)

99% agree

but it is not oligarch who get the taxes, apple stock owners I guess

it is somehow the job of Apple management to maximize profit, they are doing this

question is whether they really optimizing future profits with this behaviour, they could have moved on already

I wanted to buy my mum an iphone, I am all linux and android, my partner has iphone and ipad and even if I dont like apple and microsoft logic, they are good products

I thought with face id it is easier to be safe and she will not really see that I forced a pass manager on her :)

and I was sure now apple abandons this behaviour and they were put on the right track, apple was somehow an option for me... until this happened

no way I ever buy an iphone anytime in the future for anybody

but I am probably a minority... I think this kind of behaviour is disgusting that apple does

however, if app store revenue is 100B dollar, every year, logically understandable, 500 million fines are noting

still, the world is governed by emotions too, and I will never forgive Apple

no, because they are gatekeepers and they operate within countries that have laws and regulations

Apple is not above the law... you cannot host pedofile stuff on YOUR platform because there are laws against it

heck I use a private rail company that travels on the rails built by the other state rail company thanks to EU law

they are better, have self check-in, bought double decker trains and the other train company laughed at them because these trains were designed originally for smaller distances

it is of course much more economical and this state rail company just ordered the same trains

the device and OS of Apple is like the rail tracks, people use them not Apple, and as long as they have that big marketshare they own the rails that developers MUST use

Apple would have just said no, double decker trains are not secure, everybody has to use our secure design on our rails because we protect our customers

monopoly hinders not just competitive prices but innovation too

sure :)