stale2002

> Obviously peace isn't possible

You better hope it is. Because if peace never happens, Israel is going to win and all the palestinians will be kicked out, and the rest of the world isn't going to do anything about it.

I mean, people are already calling it a genocide, so if peace isn't possible, just kicking out all of the palestinians seems like the most likely outcome here. And the more fighting that happens, the more arabs will die for nothing.

> won't also eventually want to capture Egypt

Because the countries are working together quite well right now, there is significant economic benefit to peace, and there is little to gained from controlling wide swaths of empty land, when peace and trade is much more profitable. Occupation is expensive and if its possible to maintain strong economic relationships that is much more mutually beneficial then the nonsense that you propose.

> They just have to self deport back to their original countries.

No actually. They would rather fight till the end than be ethnically cleansed (the vast majority of people being born there). They will never do that, and it would require military action to get anywhere close to that.

At which point it brings us back to the fact that they have a modern military and nuclear weapons, so military action won't work.

> What they do next is not my concern

Well, if peace isn't possible what would almost certainly happen is that most of the Palestinians will be kicked out. I mean, if it is that or them being kicked out, like what you propose, obviously they will fight to win.

> Nothing short of that is a peaceful solution unfortunately.

Oh I fully agree that the arab population isn't going to stop fighting. What is almost certainly going to happen is that peace won't happen and Israel will simply Win The Conflict, by exporting most of the gazan population.

I mean, the rest of the world is barely doing anything against them. They have little reason not to at this point, if peace isn't possible.

Which is sad, but hey. Thats war. It is unfortunate though just how many arab lives have been scarificed for nothing though, failing to achieve an impossible goal. Impossible because Israel is never going to let itself be destroy nor ethnically cleansed, and the rest of the world is barely doing anything against it, and, you know that modern military + nuclear weapons.

> And if they want to use nukes over such an insane point

Nukes would only be used in the case of a military invasion that seriously threatens them. If its just trade embargoes, and local militant conflicts, Israel would simply weather the storm, and/or kick out all the palestinians if they don't stop throwing their lives away for nothing.

> then the world far outnumbers

The rest of the world isn't doing shit right now dude. And the point is that no invasion is going to happen of Israel, precisely because of the nuclear weapons. Nobody is going to nuke anyway, nor will any other countries take action, and if the palestinians keep fighting for nothing the end result is that they will probably just be kicked out pretty soon.

> If they want to nuke everyone just because people don't like trading with them

Nobody is going to nuke people over trade.

But, if the only thing that happens is that there are trade sanctions, well seeing as Israel considers changing up their country's demographics an existential threat, well it isn't going to end the state of Israel and nothing short of military action will cause that to happen.

Its certainly possible to motivate Israel to make some changes, but its not going to let itself be destroyed, nor will it ever accept 10 million immigrants into the country, and there would have to be military action to every make that happen.

The point being, Israel isn't going away. Its not going to be destroy. And if it was every a real threat, well they'd use the nukes.

Peace is certainly possible though. If the only thing you want is for both the existing middle east militant groups and Israel to stop fighting each other, and everyone exists where they are today, then great that peace is absolutely possible.

Nothing of what you said contradicts my point.

Whatever the government is of Egypt, it seems quite clear that peace is possible. There is no war with Egypt. Egypt is getting paid a bunch of money. Israel's army is not marching on the capital. It seems like they are at peace.

So the point stands that peace is clearly possible, such as the clear peace that we see between Egypt, Jordan, and Israel.

> Israel can still be peacefully

They aren't going to massively change their demographics. They will never agree to that, and they would have to be invaded to achieve anything close to that. Which brings up back to them haveing 100+ nuclear weapons.

This goal of destroying israel, or massively changing their demographics has caused hundreds of thousands of arabs to die, over and over again, wasting on a doomed goal, seeing as Israel has a modern military and nuclear weapons that they would absolutely use if their military was at risk of being defeat.

The actual peaceful solutions look something like Jordan or Egypt, which are perfectly able to be at peace.

> Egypt gets paid

Oh great proving my point. They get to be at peace and get paid money to do so. Looks like a good deal all around. I guess peace is possible with the surrounding countries after all right?

> The US government

The US government is perfectly able to make peace with countries like Egypt and Jordan. Because those countries aren't funding proxy groups to destabilize the region.

As soon as Iran stops shooting missiles at tankers and stops funding militant groups, peace would be achieved.

> that clearly shows

Its called mutually assured destruction bro. Every country in the world would use their nukes if they were actually under threat of destruction.

Thats the point of having nukes. For them to be used as a deterent against collapse.

> All the more reason to check

They have the nukes already dude! They aren't going away. They aren't going to be destroyed. And the nukes don't disappear just because funding stops going to them.

The point being, the destruction of Israel would just result in all of their enemies being destroyed along with them, so you better hope it doesn't happen.

> What is stopping them?

The militant groups obviously. If peace isn't possible of course Israel is going to play to win.

Israel was perfectly able to make peace with Egypt and jordan, for example, and they aren't invading them.

> Mathematics is collaboratively and publicly produced, it is vetted for free by peers, and results are publicly available. There is no 'market' and no 'price'.

How wonderful then! You should be happy to know that the AI companies are releasing information for free for all to collaborate on then!

> What, precisely, did the mathematics 'oligopoly' gatekeep

Well what they are trying to do is convince the AI companies to stop releasing all of their findings. Because they are upset that other people are able to do their job better than they are. Its the classic gatekeeper move.

> There's very little money

Oh there is much more than money to silly games like these. Instead, clout and the admiration of their peers, in this tiny insular group for sure, is what most of these people are so desperate to acquire.

Fame (well... relative.... in their subgroup) and admiration of their peers is a much stronger motivation factor for humans than mere money.

> but that same system you disdain

I don't distain anyone who is willing to get with the times. My distain is held out only for those who want to prevent the rest of the world from using the latest tools to achieve real results. If a mathmatician simply doesn't care and isn't wineing about all this AI stuff, I have no issue with them.

> the Iranian government were either going to fight the war

You missed the perfectly reasonable 3rd option. Iran could stop shooting missiles at oil tankers, stop funding proxy groups, and make an arrangement for peace.

We both know though, that they are unwilling to do that. Because peace was never their goal. Instead, they wanted to achieve regional hegemony, and funded proxy groups to do that. But whatever, look how well that worked out for them.

Sure, if taking out the regime is the only pathway to stop Iran from continuing on its current path, then the USA is of course going to try that. But if there was an actual path the peace here, where Iran simply stopped its attacks, things could get back to normal fairly quickly.