slownews45

Sure. Cloudflare can give away free services as a marketing effort. AWS gives away 1TB/month of cloudfront bandwidth, 1 million lambda calls per month, 1 million SNS notification per month, 25GB of DynamoDB capacity, 1 million Simple Queue queries per month and plenty more. So does google.

But what, again, is the pricing of cloudflare's "competitive CDN offering"? That seriously all I am asking for.

If you are going to go on about pricing (cloudflare does) have the courtesy to list yours publicly and don't have gag orders in your agreements.

The context of all of this is Amazon supposedly obfuscating their pricing to waste budgets. With cloudflare, you can't even FIND their pricing and will need to talk with a salesperson.

Anyways, for those stumbling around with this, minimum I've heard cloudflare doing is $24K per year on their paid stuff, and then they added Argo at around 10 cents per GB in the pay as you go offerings. Cloudfront is 2 to 9 cents per GB, google 2 to 10, fastly is around 8 to 12 cents, keycdn 4 cents etc. Not claiming AWS or Google are the cheapest, but pricing is pretty darn upfront.

Also have heard of folks getting busted by cloudflare if too many folks in asia/non-USA use the service, this seems far fetched, but AWS does charge differently by geo area so not sure if cloudflare has some rules like that tucked away.

Yeah, it'll be interesting especially positioned against facebook's META / Oculus products.

On HN folks trash apple (closed systems, supposedly phones don't hold value etc). Reality for most folks outside of HN, Apple is just far far more trusted. Facebook has a ton more users, but I'm not sure about trust levels (though we will see if that matters, for facebook so far they have done fine).

Umm, this is what is such a gimmick about these "free" services.

I run a video website on AWS, no one cares what I am doing, they charge me and done. I distribute software updates, no one complains, they charge me and done.

I run a video website on cloudflare, they say, oh, you are not running a website, you are distributing content, that's against the rules. Similarly if I host my software, my software updates, my management layer with firmware update service etc. Heads ups, when I visit these sites, for most normal people I am visiting a website.

Do folks not realize when they keep on repeating that egress is "free" on cloudflare that is a total lie? Hello, it's not free. You will get a call and they will squeeze you.

The streaming product is useful finally because we have at least a rough idea of price. Youtube avg video is 700MB/hr or so (mobile video is huge these days). That get's us to about 9 cents per GB.

Interestingly, this was I think the egress pricing they had for workers back when they were public about it.

AWS is 5 to 9 cents as well depending on usage so same range.

AWS Cloudfront is 2 cents to 9 cents depending on usage.

OK, so we are within the normal range of things now with egress pricing.

In my own experience with this type of player, you still get the call if you optimize for their pricing (ie, you run your 4K content through them, and your other content via another platform) because despite their claims bandwidth is "free" they are actually losing money on it, and if you use enough of this "free" stuff their marketing budget can't handle it and they just shut you down.

It's just not worth dealing with.

You'll know Cloudflare has a competitive CDN offering when they are willing to give you the pricing publicly of providing a CDN service that can handle any type of content. That is the proof point.

Cloudflare does have Argo which I think runs in that 5 to 9 cent range again per GB.

Back to the claim that AWS has hidden pricing (especially relative to cloudflare). I still find that ridiculous. Cloudlfare seems to be a heavily marketing based org with very hidden pricing (everything is call for a quote). Does anyone know what % of expense cloudflare has in marketing / selling? I'd imagine pretty damn high.

The reason people need / use high egress (ie, far above the 1TB etc AWS gives per month) is for things like video sites, software updates / distribution etc.

I've been burned (too many times) by these "free" claims.

Will you absolutely guarantee (and pay me if needed) that I can host a large video website on cloudflare with no egress? This will be in PB not TB.

What I have found is that these sites with "free" are inevitably scams, that the types of loads that actually need high traffic egress result in that middle of the night email to squeeze you into some high cost plan (which does in fact have an egress price).

That said, if you will cover overage charges - I'll spin up a website on cloudflare. Do you understand bandwidth needs of video hosting sites? I'm sure porn sites are in 10-15PB per day range (ie, > 300PB/month).

Digital Ocean is really serving a different market. The folks recommending them tend to be running smaller workloads (so DO can have relative lower perf per vCPU etc).

The best I've found - run the workload you actually plan on running. Even on AWS etc, the perf differences are getting pretty meaningful between instance families even at similar price points.

Most of these third parties are using official API's to get pricing data, if there is something with a hidden price do ask and someone can probably help you figure it out. One reason AWS got popular is that it actually was historically much HARDER to get pricing from your internal IT team / vendors like IBM etc. So AWS wasn't the cheapest (by any means) but was pretty clear on cost. So it's interesting to hear that AWS is purposely hiding pricing and making price complicated to "waste company's budgets".

"mostly to make it easy for developers to waste the company's budget."

Is this the case? I can't even find cloudflare's egress pricing online AT ALL. With AWS I can find pricing for anything I want.

Is there a specific instance price that you are trying to find and can't, you may be able to post here and someone can help you. The prices are on the AWS site, and also exposed via API's so there are a ton of third party services for them as well.

I wasn't aware that AWS had set up pricing "mostly to make it easy for developers to waste the company's budget". If you need help saving money AWS offers some services for this directly and again third parties can help you if you are struggling.

FTC has been a bit schizo.

Some of their tech industry cases and gas cases seem comically bad. The administration works flat out to stop domestic fossil fuel production (fair enough). Gas prices rise (good for environment as it may depress usage) - then they announce a big investigation into the price of gas?

This is the FTC announcing this gas investigation, not some politicians making noise.

In CA at least, price of gas is heavily influenced by govt rules which includes taxes (state and local), state level blending requirements (14 different blend requirements), federal blending rules (ethanol) etc.

Annoyingly, they don't link to actual complaint in these puff press releases, but the bones of a case like this seem so much stronger than some of the recent crap.

Exactly - and they are talking / working with at least some boring accountants in all of this who don't care if things are curated by Jay-Z in their point of sale and merchant clearing systems.

What I'm not understanding is that by most commercial radio standards, these guard bands are huge. 400Mhz? 20Mhz?

Can they not just do a test with 50 planes and get some hard data?

Google search is going downhill in my experience.

My question: What is the alternative?