shadowfoxx

That did clear it up for me, thank you!

I'm genuinely not certain how your definition of consciousness is distinct and different from 'responds to stimuli'.

I don't think its necessarily to keep humans on top. I don't think my dog can fly an F-16 but I also think my dog is conscious.

I don't think its possible to be working on 'absolutely nothing'. I think you'll find that if you really explore this idea that you can almost always go further. For example. Do you clean your house? Maintenance is something. The status quo is something and it need to be maintained to exist. I think you recognize this because you admit that you're working on yourself.

The only time I think you could truly do nothing is when you've passed.

I would say I was in a similar place - Wake up, Go to work, come home, watch youtube, sleep, repeat; I had projects I was interested in but couldn't bring myself to do them. For me, part of the answer was changing my environment, the people I was with, the culture was to chill because you're exhausted from work. Another part was, like you're doing now, working on yourself. Another, specific part of working on myself was taking inventory of the things I 'valued'. Did I truly still value those things or were they things from my youth that I am clinging to? Do I value them because I authentically value them or is it because culturally they are valued? Am I applying those cultural valued to places that matter to me. For example: "Hard work". I do value hard work, but the places I was applying that value did not provide return on the investment. So now I apply 'hard work' elsewhere.

I think it is both necessary and good to do this from time to time. Good luck on this journey.

Yeah it seems to me like a human bias against ignorance. We have this notion that if people that don't know the knowledge that we know they must be dumb because, "everybody knows ____".

Kids are literally just the definition of inexperienced.

"There’s a lot of software being produced that just doesn’t care about its users, or that manipulates them, or that turns them into the product. And this isn’t limited to social media: as a user, I can’t even book a room, order food, or click on the Windows start button without popups trying to grab my attention;"

I recently interviewed at Netflix and during the design portion of the interview I was tasked with navigating to a UI, creating a user-persona, and making arguments for or against how well the interface delivered on my goals as a user. I chose Amazon and "Parent of a family shopping for groceries". Mostly because I have a lot to say about the interface personally and I felt this would be useful in the interview.

Now it used to be that when you clicked on the account section in the top right of the interface - the page would refresh and nothing would change. I found this infuriating because the dropdown was just a hover. Turns out the interface now takes you to a landing page with the same info as the hover.

HOWEVER. During the interview, that hover (The one for Account), also advertised products to me. I mentioned that this is causing friction for me as a user, that what I want is to view my account information but I am being bombarded with more irrelevant things to buy.

The interviewer - some lead of design within the company said - "Well, you have to remember that all of these decisions are tested to death and there is good likely good reason/research to back up that part of the UI". I wish I had the presence of mind to say that response betrays the exercise we were doing but I digress.

Biz > dev > user. Biz ≹ user.

If I was their partner I would read this as, "Oh, they understand that we have two different ways of communication and they are changing their own behavior instead of asking me to change mine so that we both end up saving time/money. This is what it looks like to be a good partner? Pointing out that your partner thinks differently from you is not the same thing as blaming them for something.

Could you explain, in your own words instead of putting the responsibility on me to interpret your meaning, how they are blaming their partner for the interaction?

  Location:                   USA

  Remote:                     Yes, please

  Willing to relocate:        No but occasional travel, OK

  Technologies:               React, Typescript, Next.js, PostgresSQL, Docker, Github (To name a few)

  Résumé/CV:                  Can email if interested:

  LinkedIn:                   https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendrickdrews/
          
  Email:                      [email protected]

I'm a largely-self taught Full-Stack developer with a focus on the Front-End/Design side of things. I've got ~6 years experience professionally programming. At my last position I went from Developer => Tech Lead in about a year and before I left was leading 5/6 teams without failure to deliver. Knowledgeable in 508 compliance and architecting entire projects/Working within departments to solve issues. I'm the kind of developer who asks a lot of questions to as many people as necessary to get the job done.

I'm someone who's quite interested in learning to play music - took some classes in highschool (but my focus was the visual arts which is why I struggle to find time amongst my other hobbies, I'll get there)

I always wished that sheet music was rotated 90 degrees. The more I hear from musicians the more I think maybe that's not good... but there is something to be said about, "with experience you'll just get it, it become natural" especially with a system that's been around for hundreds of years...

In this thread you've said both that people won't do 'unsavory' work, like cleaning, for social accolades but also that the people who do volunteer to clean up public spaces do it for social accolades (Virtue signaling)

I'm not going to pretend to know the motivations of all people who clean up beaches but it is unlikely that the overwhelming majority do it simply for clout farming. People are more than one thing. Regardless they are just one example of so many examples of good public work that people do right now - in a culture that I would argue does not meaningfully incentivize this behavior. I don't think whether or not people do it when they are alone is relevant here. We're literally arguing about whether people would in a different culture, not the selfish one we currently occupy. I think a society like that is not only possible but necessary.

But anyway, last thing I'll say is that I get the sense that your view is more informed by a pessimism about "how people are" - and that how they are is concrete and unchanging - rather than about data or thinking more holistically.

I think the people who volunteer to clean up their community beach, river, stream, city street would disagree with you. There's enough pushback to your current position that I can even think of memes that talk about this very thing

Also, this appeal to nature really doesn't hold up to scrutiny either. We do things that "go against our evolutionary nature" all the time. For example: None of us spread our shit anywhere. Or how, due to current culture and city design, people largely live isolated physically from larger communities. The list goes on.

That's an upper-limit for social relationships not signing on to things conceptually - for example: Taxes. We know that our taxes go towards making things for all ~350 million of us (USA) or however populous your country and we're capable of recognizing that as a good thing. Or, at the very least, a necessary evil?

> but you need to be very careful how you define community. A community that is defined by who is included nearly always cannot escape an implicit declaration of who is excluded, and a community which includes everybody is no community at all. When you have an in-group and an out-group, you sow the early seeds of conflict and discord.

Okay but, as far as I can read this its just universally true? Respectfully, you're not making the case for it being impossible and you're pointing to something that literally exists now. If it's hard, cool, I'm not afraid of difficult challenges, I honestly believe most people aren't afraid either.

> No, this is the basis for the tribe, with similar concerns about intertribal conflict.

That's fine, a bigger circle of people is exactly why I believe that your premise I was originally responding to doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I think in the present day people are able to operate in several different tribes that are not in serious struggle with one another and there's nothing concrete to point to (as far as I know) that there's an upper limit?

In another comment you mention that "No one would choose to be a Janitor" and I think that is rooted in "At the snap of the finger we'd be socialist and that would cause chaos" kind of thinking. "Being a Janitor" is only a "bad thing" due to our present culture. I certainly don't think it's less important that someone is a Janitor as opposed to a Lawyer or something - The reason people "Don't" want to be Janitors right now is less to do with 'the job' and whatever stereotypes you have in your head but because it's one of the jobs that doesn't pay enough for someone to live comfortably. I don't think its a huge leap to believe that if you could live comfortably and with dignity as a Janitor, people would absolutely do it.

Shoot, people volunteer to be *fire fighters*...

I mean, in America? Right now? Maybe not... okay definitely not but I ask the same thing about Higher-taxes for the betterment of all. No way it would happen here - the people wouldn't accept it but it does work elsewhere and the people there are, by the ways we currently measure, way happier than we are.

I think a culture that teaches the value of community and does a great deal to impart on the youth that we have the nice, comfortable lives (with arguably more freedom) is because we share those burdens and its part of our civic duty... that its patriotic to do so. I could see that working out.

Plus how crazy is it to think that cultures and societies did operate similarly in the past, pre-industrialization? Isn't this the basis for the family unit?

  Location:                   USA

  Remote:                     Yes, please

  Willing to relocate:        No but occasional travel, OK

  Technologies:               React, Typescript, Next.js, PostgresSQL, Docker, Github (To name a few)

  Résumé/CV:                  Can email if interested:

                              
  linkedIn        https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendrickdrews/
  Email:                      [email protected]

I'm a largely-self taught Full-Stack developer with a focus on the Front-End/Design side of things. I've got ~6 years experience professionally programming. At my last position I went from Developer => Tech Lead in about a year and before I left was leading 5/6 teams without failure to deliver. Knowledgeable in 508 compliance and architecting entire projects/Working within departments to solve issues. I'm the kind of developer who asks a lot of questions to as many people as necessary to get the job done.