schmoooo

at any point in time, a person can only read so much scrolling through their feed and follow thousands.

try keet.io and join rooms woth 20k+ members. works without problems.

even having millions of followers isnt a different problem to torrenting a popular archive.

p2p absolutely scales and excels when the amount of users is massive.

fair enough, i take it.

unfortunately open source is unthankful and if you work on something novel and different its even harder, so if anyone secures funding by compromising and then using that to spread different marketing it can be very frustrating.

the thread started woth the post of the dat ecosystem website.

...since then it was declared dead by some. then at proto was framed as some sort of "successor. then iroh used the opportunity to plug their project.

all of them with their own marketing budget and funding, so this makes it really tough for very passionate and personally invested open source community with no VC funding

so fai enough, a calmer answer would read nicer, but its not always easy.

...if you are interested in more particular issues i can of course elaborate and provide more details - technically or otherwise.

cheers

atproto is not p2p and will never be. ...if thats why ppl adopt it, they essentially got scammed.

p2p has lots of challenges but many are cultural and social and related to funding and changes in UX, but the technical side is pretty much battle tested and production ready and working.

again, paul pfrazee is the creator of beaker browser - one dat ecosystem project among many, so he is of course entitled to his opinion

i mean - network situations can be complicated and problematic but i would say pretty much yes in the sense of in prwctice it almost always works - 100% is too strongly framed, but it is really reliable, feel free to try.

if you dont want to use the stack and try programmatically, try keet messenger or holesail.io app to experience the reliability

you dont need relays if you use dat.

blind relays are optional and literally only relevant for specific really difficult carrier grade network conditions where direct connections might not always work.

...but even then, relay is really dynamic and any dat peer is automatically and dynamically participating im the process ..p2p, not federated

yeah, absolutely false.

paul pfrazees beaker browser was just one of many dat ecosystem proje ts even though a popular one. keet is also a dat ecosystem project.

quibble is just the latest addition and linked elsewhere in this thread and an open source version of keet.

there is an active dat rust implementation.

you also have a sql relation database primitive on top of dat and the hyper stack now

and datweb will be released soon.

at proto has nothing to do with p2p at all and its just pfrazee who moved on.

the holepunch company mainly focuses on building the closed source keet app and the bare and pear runtime to make it easy to built cross platform p2p application.

they also maintain a lot of the underlying hyper stack that has grown and matured and is essentially the foundation of dat ecosystem, but there are many projects.

you also have an interview of mathias buus presenting holepunch/keet on the dat ecosystem blog, so sadly your view seems quite distorted for some reason, ...unless you are getting paid to plug at proto

nat traversal decentralized/distributed holepunching is absolutely what dat has pioneered and is also industry leading and battle tested because it has plenty of apps with lots of users.

dat exists in rust and the more feature rich mature version is C & JS so you cqn build cross platform p2p apps using the web stack to make it as easy as possible for anyone to adopt

dat is not dead. dat is alive and kicking. dat is also has datrs if rust is your cuppa. dat and its underlying hyper-* stack has industry leading holepunching capabilities INCLUDING on mobile!! ..and you also have bluetooth discovery these days.

its a mature battle tested ecosystem and the keet messenger shows you whats possible.

iroh is just for p2p connectivity and doesnt aim to create what dat is trying - they arent comparable.

in a nutsbell, dat gives you git+torrent but more flexible.

soon datweb will be released to make the stack work in regular browsers - no need for cpoud or any servers - works entirly on just mobile/laptop/desktop ..end user devices