samuel_backend

No, I absolutely don't and I feel that's the main point where people take offense in what I said.

My question goes more in the direction of: For me personally, the communal and social aspect of occasionally sitting in the same room with the team I'm building software with has always given me a lot. And I have experienced recently that loads of people will not even take a 20 minute commute once a week to have some few meetings face-to-face because they apparently don't even see the slightest addition in value from that. I can't really wrap my head around it (because I obviously have an orthogonal viewpoint here) and was trying to get more insight into this way of thinking.

I work a 4 day work week and am complaining about this BECAUSE I care about the fun and meaning these 32 hours / week have, not because I want to work more or define myself through work achievements.

And again, I wouldn't want to force anyone to come to the office. I am merely asking for other people's opinions.

Thanks! And for what it's worth, I don't feel chastised that much. From personal experience of talking to a lot of friends about this, I knew where this was headed :D

I agree with your comment 100% but the closing line is ridiculously beside the point. I also really don't get how anyone reads into my post that I want to force everyone to come back to the office all the time. My whole point was that I sometimes feel like I'm the only one missing certain things about working in a co-located manner and, you're absolutely right there, I forgot to factor in some very import background factors like the country you're working from.

Nah, you're wrong there. I actually only work 4 days / week for most of the year. It's not that I am requiring my working time to fill my life with meaning, it's more that I feel the almost third of my life I spent working has significantly lost in fun and meaning for me personally. The whole point of the post was to see how others felt about it and get some insights into different (and similar) perspectives.

I think the sentence "I've met people like you" has never not been part of a shitty argument

Haha, yeah sure! How do we go about and do this?

That is actually a very fair point!

Sorry, what? :D

It's a valid assumption and you are absolutely right :D I have a stable circle of friends I see very regularly and several hobbies I follow after work. And here is the thing: I want to have discussion with co-workers and this "involvement" in the tech community, but honestly I want to do it during the third of my day that is already dedicated for work. I love my job, but gosh darn it if 8 hours a day is not enough. I want to spend the rest doing completely different things. That's why the "just go to meetups" argument doesn't cut it for me.

Haha, I really tried to make it clear that the post just is my opinion and I don't claim to be "right" about any of those things. The reason it's so obscenely long is just that, I wanted to elaborate on how these things appear to me. I really tried not to fall into "WFH is shit and everyone who likes it is wrong". I mean even the title basically asks for input.

And yes sure, in one or two places I phrased things bluntly but always tried to make it clear that it's how it seems to me and not reproaching anyone for their preferences.

Thanks, that is my point exactly! I was expecting the good ol' "Get some friends and stop complaining" argument here and it's completely besides the point. I am talking about group identity of teams and understanding social dynamics. It greatly increases my intrinsic motivation working for a team I identify with on a personal and social level instead of "for the company"

Honestly, I feel this is a bit of a black-and-white view that grossly oversimplifies things. And I am downright insulted by the last sentence to be frank.

Blaming shitty management on extroverted techies. Are you sure about that?

Actually something I am doing at the moment. It's definitely a huge improvement.

Regardless, having a good brainstorming session in person and actually building a strong sense of community and shared responsibility with a team you're on is so much better in real-life than remote for me.

Another thing is that finding an office space was really hard and we got extremely lucky. Try finding a payable office space in a capital city is not an "easy alternative" for the regular Joe I would say.

I did not see coming how I could offend someone this hard with that sentence. I hope it was clear that I was not speaking from my personal opinion but from the perspective (tech-) companies inevitably take.

But then again, what do you think the consensus among developers in high-wage countries is? Do you think most people gladly see their salary drop by double percentage points because "someone else is just as good who gets paid that amount"? If you extrapolate from your thinking, what do you think would happen eventually?