rojeee

Nick should leave London and go live in the countryside - that’s the only place where traditional British values are alive and well.

Nitpick but Alex Yee won gold in 2024, Blummenfelt was 12th!

I'm working on a running app. Mainly for me but others have expressed interest.

It's a performance analytics platform for runners who love to dive into the details after they've been for a run and to be able to accurately track their progress over time.

It's not like Strava because I'm not including any social elements, intitally. And not like trainingpeaks because it's focused on individuals as opposed to teams or coaches. Also the analytics and models I offer are peronalised as opposed to one-size-fits-all. It's also running only. No cycling or anything else.

Ideal target market would be fairly decent amateur runners (e.g. sub 3 hour marathoners) who already know quite a bit about training but don't have a coach and are not good enough to be pro and have a full team doing this stuff for them. The pros have awesome tools but sadly most are not available for us mere mortals BUT I can build some of them! Example features:

1. Personalised "adjusted speed" models. The strava GAP model doesn't fit very well for me and many others, so I've made my own personalised model which gets updated each week. If you get better/worse at running up hills then model adjustments take that into account. The idea is not to provide a physiological correct model but more a performance based one.

2. I'm trying to do the same for surface types, heat and humidity as well. Of course these models are not personalised. I'll get to wind later on as it's much more complicated than the former. The idea is to have an accurate representation of "effort pace", which you can use as an input to performance models.

3. Using adjused pace data I will offer a pace/duration model to estimate critical speed/LT1/LT2/VO2max and this model forms the basis of tracking progress over time. Clearly most training wont be all out efforts, so I also estimate race performances based upon current fitness as well. E.g. if you ran X speed for Y time at a sub maximal effort then you can estimate what a maximal effort would be based upon the remaining aerobic and anaerobic power. From reading sports science literure, this is the most advanced way to track performance at the moment. The actual model I use is called an omniduration model.

4. I also have build some other models, e.g. Daniels running formula, which can be used but I don't find them to be as useful as the omniduration model.

5. I'm also trying to model how a workout or training session will effect your fitness. Where it's base/aerobic, threshold, VO2max or an anaerobic effect. Then, the idea would be to look at future training performance to assess whether the model was correct. You can then assess which types of training you respnd best to as well as which types of sessions you need to get the performance gains you need for your next race.

6. Specific race time predictor. Most platforms offer a single figure prediction for a distance but I want to offer specific race perdictions which take the course and weather into account. The model will give you splits taking all this into account.

7. Cohort adjusted performance models. How are you tracking against people your age? But more importantly, how are you tracking against people doing a similar volume and type of training to you? Are you improving at a similar rate?

There's a tonne of other stuff I can add but I'm going to keep it simple and focus on performance modelling for now because no-one seems to offer any decent tools around this at the moment.

If anyone found this interesting then I'd love to hear any feedback - let me know. Cheers!

"it never gets easier, you just get faster", or so the saying goes

Yup, I have a Garmin Fenix 8 AMOLED. It's an excellent watch. I run for 6-8 hours a week and I only need to charge it once a week. It is very hard wearing and has so many capabilities I don't know where to start. It even has a flashlight with red LED for during the night. With Garmin connect down I can just grab the FIT file from the watch and upload to Strava manually or perform my own analysis locally.

Well.. a crude estimate of relative running economy is pace/heart rate and tracking it over time. Seeing the number go upwards means your economy is increasing and vice versa.

A fair amount of people track this because it's a feature of pretty much every training/coaching app.

Simply because I find it gets me much better results. I know that to run a 15 minute 5km I need to be able to run that pace in training. I don't really care what my lactate threshold or VO2max is other than it's just interesting to know. I use a critical speed (pace/duration) model to know what paces are metabolically steady state and which are not. So based upon how I perform in training, I know pretty much what paces should be within the realms of possibility for a maximal effort and I use that to guide my training.

edit: I'll just add that I do use physiology to guide the training paces. But when you've been training for a while you know that 1) Marathon pace is aerobic threshold pace. 2) Half maraton is lactate threshold pace. 3) 5km is critical speed. 4) 10km is between critical speed and lactate threshold. So whilst I do use physiology to guide trianing paces I don't use a zone system or anything like that. I just design workouts which I know touch on the various systems I need to improve.

I think you are right regarding lactate threshold but im not sure how they factor in running economy as it's difficult to calculate. You need an accurate VO2 measurement. I guess they use HR as a proxy but in practise I find HR isn't such a good measure of metabolic output for various reasons; hills, unrelated stressors, heat, aerobic decoupling, etc.

Good question. Haven't done a cooper test but from my pace duration curve I'd be looking at a touch over 4km for 12 minutes. The calculator I used online said my VO2max would be 78, which can't be right. I'm one of those athletes with good running economy and a high lactate threshold but comparitvely lower VO2max. I've always been worse than sprinting and at shorter distances than my peers but I find longer distances easier.

I'm sorry I can't find the paper which discusses VO2max and how it could potentially fall with lots of low aerobic training e.g. aerobic threshold running. The idea of the paper was to show that training to improve physiological markers like VO2max didn't necessarily translate to better race performance and infact sometimes training to improve the marker actually decreased it... One of the things they noticed was that certain marathon runners actually had a fall in VO2max but ended up with faster race times, illustrating that race performance is determined by factors other than VO2max.

Annoying, if I find it, I'll reply to your comment with the link. It's just one paper though, probably something in it but it's definitely not the consensus view of exercise physiologists.

Yeah only for 5km though. I can't run a marathon at that pace!

Apologies, my wife is not keen on me sharing Strava profile on the web as people can basically see where we live (UK countryside and we are the only house in the area!).

Low 15:00s. I doubt I'll be able to break 15 though as I'm just getting too old now. I used to train seriously when I was a teenager so maybe those adaptations stick with you as you get older.

It's a good question. I find that the most important thing is running at or close to race pace. I follow Canova's training philosophy quite closely. Definitely recommend reading the runningwritings link I posted above.

I do between 80km to 100km a week.

Most of my running is done at a moderate pace. I just do this to get mileage in. Most of it is quite hilly. Looking at about 300-400m elevation for each 10km and runs range from 10km to 20km. Pace is around 4:00/km to 4:20/km.

If I do a workout, I follow it with a recovery run. Pace around 4:40/km. If a super hard workout then I do two days of recovery runs.

I never run doubles because I have young kids and don't have the time.

The most important ingredients are the workouts. I never repeat the same workout. A typical one for 5km training would be: a few km warm up, then 3km @ 97% 5km pace, 2 min moderate, 2km @ 5km pace, 2min moderate, 1km @ 103% 5km pace, then a recovery pace warm down. About 15km in total. That's a hard workout and would be followed with easy running the next day. I would do that workout to improve lactate buffering and improve anearobic capacity.

For lactate threshold I'd do something like 20x400m at LT pace with walking rest for 3 minmutes inbetween. This is where I might use the hyperbolic model to figure out when all the metabolic byproducts are flushed out so you can basically do the next 400m mostly recovered.

Other workouts might be aerobic thresohld runs. So marathon pace running for 15km to 30km. These are the long fast runs that canova talks about. They are hard and you need a lot of recovery after. I really find they improve performance quite alot. They are not presecribed in most training plans and I feel they are a key missing ingredient.

I do a fair bit of hill reps and sprints as well. They are probably best for improving VO2max. Lots of rest inbetween reps, you need to be fully recoved for the next one to get the benefit.

Lastly, you need to keeo touching on all the various metabolic systems. If you don't use it, you lose it. Keep your training varied. Sprints, short interbvals, long intervals, long fast runs, hill reps, ladders, alternates, with varying levels of recovery and at different speeds. Make sure your training is additive. Don't remove any class of session, just add more different types.

Do strength/core workouts. Plyometrics. You need to be strong to bash out miles at MP and not get injured.

I use theragun after any hard workout. Helps recovery loads.

Eat. Alot. On hard workout/long run days I do about 5000kcal.

Most importantly, I think, don't listen to any of the 80/20 polarised nonsense, MAF method, or anything like that. One size fits all training regimes don't work very well because everyone is different. They work for beginners because _any_ running will have them improve.

For more experienced athletes, to run fast you need to practise running fast at the paces you will race at. So doing a training plan which prescribes 80% of easy running as a rule is no good. You only run easy if you need to recover. Every other workout/session needs to target some metabolic system to promote adaptinos which help you run faster. It's the workouts which really make a difference to your race performance.

That makes sense. If you do longer runs (and long fast runs) then your half/marathon time will be more accurate. In general, the issue with using VO2max to priduct race performance is that it doesn't take into account account running economy which is a massive factor in determining performance for longer distances. Same with lactate threshold, which has a big impact on all distances. E.g. at what point do you go from a metabolic steady state to an unsustainable state. It's the most important factor in distance running in my opinion. The threshold can be at quite a slow pace even for someone with a high VO2max if they are not doing the right training. E.g. think of someone who is excellent at HIIT and has a VO2max of 60+ but can't run a fast 10km.

Yes, sorry, you are right to point that out. I meant 30 mins!