proxynoproxy

The fleet analogy doesn’t hold. I used the term “lockstep” for a reason. Fleets of cars are not in lockstep. A degraded fleet is worse than no fleet here, there is no 2 are down, 8 are up here.

A better yet strained analogy is 10 cars with different parts that are not interchangeable, work differently and need different drivers. Maintenance nightmare. Contrast with say, an Airline fleet all of the same type of plane, interchangeable parts and pilots qualified in that model.

Anyway, we should leave it here. This debate will be referenced in n years as other debates of in previous cycles on here. I am getting more concerned about physical threats after the recent incidents. I’m going to burn this identity now.

Don’t forget that opaque blockchains can have invisible inflation. Transparent blockchains will always be worth more, as the user can verify that inflation has not occurred. This applies to grin as much as xmr.

We don’t know exactly what happened between 0 and 1, but it’s not really that important, other than it’s “externally verifiable hash”, eg PoW.

Real Return”. I think the real return is -40% since PoS? And falling? The illusion of yield. It’s the same nonsense they use to get people to buy treasuries with yields under inflation. It’s Wall Street tricks dressed up as yield. That’s all that’s been reinvented here. It’s not some grand hack to bypass “waste”.

I agree going after the stakers won’t shut it down. But going after the central devs? Remember liberty reserve? Ethereum is just LR, and Solana is LR2 and Sui is LR3?

And just to think of the energy that you wasted arguing this tired point! It’s about trust.

You don’t see it has value because you trust in authority. For those that don’t trust in authority, they need a proof of work to prove that someone else… did the work. Dont trust, verify.

That no-trust, verify model is valuable to me. It’s a one way valve. Super useful when you can’t trust anyone around you.

Bitcoin is money for enemies. If my enemy and I can transact in an adversarial environment without relying on some subjective truth, this is valuable.

Satoshi spent real resources to mine, yes they were negligible at the time, but it was real resources. I recall genesis block took 6 days of hashing at difficulty 1. Vitalik just hit print.

BitAxe is a toy, yes. But my point was that people are mining sats. You just don’t see the value in the hardware and energy outlay for integrity. That’s the disconnect. PoS has no real world binding, and so must rely on humans for integrity. Bitcoin… offers an alternative. ETH PoS is more of the same. I don’t trust humans, you trust them too much.

Yes, It’s been performing badly since PoS.

Ugh. Satoshi wrote about this. Lockstep. Single Client = Good. multiple client = menace. I’m ignoring Knots because it’s in the menace category.

Ethereum ignored this wise wisdom and ended up with 5. It’s no good, but in up is down land aka ETH, it’s celebrated. You can’t convince me otherwise.

I was also there. Seemed like a scam, like all those other premined coins that were popular when ETH launched. I stand by that assessment in 2025.

I guess technically if you had traded Bitcoin for ETH at launch and then back to Bitcoin before merge you could have made more sats than holding the sats alone. It’s true of many low cap tokens. But for anyone touching ETH since the merge, they have been burned.

We can marvel at the innovations introduced by the tech, yeah, contracts are interesting (yet still don’t seem to have a use case beyond accounting and tokens.. [primarily fiat stables]).

Cherry-picked timeline… It’s reality dude! It’s the timeline that reflects reality in 2025.

Of course if you imagine a reality where ETH PoS was the best and the coin was worth $100k/ETH post merge you could say that. But that’s fantasy. It’s worth less per unit than when it was POW.

Updated to 60%. Your right I should have verified this.

And yet, every ETH is worth much less sats today then when it was PoW. Remember the flipping, lol.

All the yields in the world don’t mean nothin’ if the value of the capital is not preserved. To say nothing about “security”. I would argue the complexity introduced by the beacon chain mechanism reduces security… but it’s debatable.

You can keep beating the failing PoS drum or you can actually preserve your capital where other grubby humans can’t mess with it. I know what I’m doing.

It’s not wrong, you just don’t like it, don’t get it. It’s ok; you will eventually. Everyone does.

In the scenario I trust the later more than the former! And that’s fine, we have different perspectives.

You wanna shut us down, I want you to ignore us, See the difference?

60% of eth was printed from nothing and sold to insiders on day for Bitcoin!

It’s all awful and inexcusable!

(Edit for 60%)

Ethereum printed 60% of its tokens day one; sold to insiders. and then mined 40% for the illusion of decentralization.

Close enough. Premined scam. (Edit for 60%)

It’s good that you have identified that PoS and the global fiat financial system are pretty much the same microcosmic scam.