nova

> The cosmopolitan worldview that approves of melting-pots was born in response to the terrible failure of nationalism, which "we" experienced to the fullest.

History hasn't ended up yet. I think we're going to see how far the string can be tensed, and whether that multi-culti "solution" isn't the genesis of new strife. Things aren't looking bright.

> If you think freedom of movement is bad, do you think capital should also be controlled?

Actually yes, in moderation. I used to lean libertarian, but not anymore. But that's another talk.

> then the same should be allowed for people, surely?

Why? Capital at least doesn't behead you, people do.

> Because humans are humans, regardless of where they originated from. It's our responsibility to take care of people, period

I think that only westerners, with our pathological altruism, are silly enough, or brainwashed enough, to think that way. The rest of the world think of THEIR people first, as is natural. And any government has to take care of its citizens, not play world saviour.

But my point stands: if you emigrate, it is YOUR responsibility to integrate.

> because the daily mail is the only place they actually read about islam.

Surely Islamic terrorism existing in the first place is a factor to take into account. People aren't worried about Shintoist terrorism for some reason.

> The fix to failed integration is not to prevent people from getting in. It's to improve integration.

And why is that our responsibility?

This is outrageous. I were forced to emigrate due to war, poverty or prosecution and happened to be accepted in a country that is not my own, I would have to be 1) extremely thankful of my hosts for saving my life and 2) morally obligated to obey their laws and customs. This is basic morality.

> come down to treating each other as human beings instead of being afraid of "The Different Ones".

This is naive to the point of irrationality. The social unrest that is spreading through Europe is not _caused_ by yellow journalism (they just profit from it), it's driven by actual contact with radically different, incompatible cultures.

> The problem with colonization is that it disrupted the holistic growth of national communities

The same with immigration, then. Psychologically is even worse maybe, because instead of an overtly foreign power coming to conquer your land it's your own very government selling your society.

It never stops to amaze me the doublethinking necessary to simultaneously believe that "colonization is bad and Africa is war-torn because of the arbitrarily drawn borders by Western powers" and "multiculturalism for the West is a great idea".

> What's the more precise (and less false) statement hiding behind this?

Damage control due to the recently increasing friction caused by massive immigration.

> You seem to think "reflecting on its past" is one of the advances that came with Western civilization

Not if taken so far as to become self-destructive.

> Not sure what "modern western ethnomasochism" is,

It means that here in the West we are (were) the best (in relative terms) but we think we are the worst, and wish for our own end.

> Can you really have one without the other?

Oh yes. Godspeed to Asia which will inherit the future, learning the good bits from the West without the suicidal self-flagellation.

> Every society on Earth exists as it does because it destroyed much of the previously existing landscape and natural inhabitants,

THANKS.

Every human culture out there is responsible for wars and horrible crimes and destruction; primitive societies were no better (Hobbes Was Right (TM)), but only a few have built advanced and prosperous civilizations, and what is more, the West is basically the only which reflects on its past.

I'm over with modern western ethnomasochism.

I'd say pattern recognition is a very important aspect of science, and intelligence in general, so every ideology who tries to suppress theories for aesthetic or subjective reasons (criticizing something for being "offensive", instead of "false") is fundamentally anti-science, and anti-intelligence.

> 5. something else?

0. Stop the dogmatic multi-culti cult, accept human nature (= we prefer to live with our kind) and strive for a world in which every race and religious group is able to live peacefully and prosper, in its OWN LAND, with its own way of life.

And that includes Europe.

I used to like the Nolan chart too, but recently I've been thinking that even 2 axes is overfitting.

Politics is so complicated that only a very simple model has predictive value, even with huge variance. I think a single axis order-disorder is the best we can do to talk in general terms.

On the other hand, The Culture is just sci-fi, while Japan exists.

Evolution doesn't apply from the neck up, didn't you know?