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Siia | Flutter mobile engineer, Software Engineer | Remote within 2/3 hrs timezone of CEST | Based on location of candidate

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Ah ok, apologies!

Why are you assuming anything about me? You realise I e used the word toxic in my whole comment history only related to this topic right?

I, like many others, dont like the way she deals with people. It is toxic. You call a toxic person, a toxic person. Ample evidence for it. Its not outrage, its just facts.

Again, you are assuming that this incident was the only thing that led to her firing. If she behaves like this in public, how does she behave and interact with individuals inside the company? It doesnt matter if she interacts with senior management. If I saw someone i never interacted with harass someone, as a manager, should I just let her direct manager deal with it? Absolutely not. HR would fire that person if it was deemed against expected management behaviour. Google even explicitly stated that she was fired for unexpected management behavior.

You dont have to grasp a topic to know if someone is debating respectfully. I dont have to be a doctor to know that the person is an asshole if they act like an asshole towards me.

I think lets just agree to disagree. Focus on the behavior. Not what she is writing about in her papers. And imaging someone acted like that towards you in a workplace. Imagine you are a CEO or a manager and someone comes to you and says 'Do x y or z otherwise im leaving'. Id be like wtf, sure, if thats how you deal with disagreements, cya'. Everyone is replaceable especially toxic people.

Google let her go early claiming her actions were "inconsistent with the expectations of a Google manager".

As per the above comment

Sometimes reasons for firing are the last straw, not all the other things that led to that point.

1. Again, Managers are not the only person nor do they have to wait for someone’s direct manager to fire someone. If someone’s behavior is not acceptable, anyone authorized person in the company can fire them. Your link is irrelevant to facts.

2. Do you really think lecun wouldn’t have left Twitter if he didn’t find that conversation enjoyable? Do you discount the many other people who found her interactions with lecun horrible? Did any of the other people behave as arrogantly towards lecun as she did? Again, no point made.

3. See 1

4. See 1

So, you can either stop ignoring the fact that her own behavior led to this, or you can continue to think many other respected people in the industry who act way more professionally than her are just against her because they don’t support her views or think google is racist.

Lecun is way more an adult and professional than she is. I dont expect anything other response from Lecun. Now, lets turn the tables, have you ever seen a response like that from the person in question here?

Lecun is way more of a professional than her. He handled it the way it should be, do you think lecun is going to come out and say something other than what he did as a respected individual in the industry?

Now go and look at how she has handled it and how she argued with Lecun. Then she also thratens people if she does not get her way. There is ample evidence for her behavior. Does she behave like this all the time? Of course probably not. But the fact that she is openly behaving like this is a clear data point. If you can not see this behavior as not suitable in a work environment, then lets hope we never work together.

Can you link to your conclusions?

Because thats not how I have seen it. She threatened to leave. If any of my team had an issue, and their response 'Do X, Y, X or ill leave', even if they are in the right, I would not align with them purely out of the fact that that is not the right behavior. You can still leave any company with out threats.

Also we have not seen the email to the brain group. I wonder how that compared to her exchange with Lecun and her threatening nature.

Lecun was not harmed? How did she contribute to a healthy debate there? Please also link me. Because all I saw were aggressive tones towards someone she disagreed with (even if she was in the right). Again, he behavior (not if she was right or not) is the problem here. You can be right, but still be an asshole.

Also, how do you know some people in her team didnt have problems with her? Do you have here perf reports? I believe her direct manager is not the only person that can fire her. She can be ok good terms with her direct manager and still behave unacceptably towards higher ups

Was I pointing out what Lecun said or her specific way of handling that interaction? Its the latter thats toxic. If people were attacking Timnit for that interaction why is that? Clearly she did not handle that very well.

Her behavior is clear evidence of how she interacts with people. You can be a brilliant jerk and still get along with some people. In a team environment however, there is no place for this. Her exchange with Lecun, her threatening words and many of the way she puts forward her arguments. Even if she was in the right here, she can easily deal with it without doing what she did here.

So yes, there is more evidence for her toxic behavior than there is for her ability deal with disagreements professionally and work in a team environment.

TBH, I think this whole review things is just a reason for google letting her go. They were probably looking for a reason and she using her threatening (aka toxic) nature was just what google needed.

Have you read the exchange with Lecun? That is fact and it is Toxic. So its not unnecessary or imflammatory

Have you read her exchange with Lecun and the impact it had? Edit - Also, if her behavior online is like that, imagine what its like inside Google? Have you thought about that? Clearly her email to the brain group was an issue here, i wonder how it compared to her exchange with lecun?

One final edit, even her co-authors were not ready for publishing the paper (per article), so why is the reason of censorship, supression etc even being discussed. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion and Google likely did the right thing, purely based on her behavior

TBH, I dont think so. I think she is toxic and ample evidence for it. Its normaly for people to side with Google here IMO. Would you want to work with a brilliant jerk?