mark_and_sweep

Thanks for your response, ry. It's hard to put into words how much I appreciate your work, both on Node and Deno. Honestly, you saved me from a career as a Java dev. :) I've been using Node since 2013 and Deno since 2018 (when it was still written in Go)... I used both first for hobby projects and scripting and later, when they matured, also at work.

I disagree that there's little differentiation between Node and Deno these days. Sure, I love Deno's UX and tooling, but the security benefits Deno has over Node are still the number one reason, we're picking Deno over Node at work. I'm honestly sad we may have to reconsider and switch.

I understand you are working on a new model for server development and I'll take a look at celld for sure. But what about scripts? I have a couple hundred repositories all using Deno for a wide range of scripting tasks. I'd love to continue using Deno for scripting for another 8 years or longer.

I'm just feeling a bit sad, you know. It kinda feels like I'm gonna lose a friend. That happy little dinosaur, now standing in the pouring rain again...

Who decided that the Deno runtime would be abandoned? Was this Cloudflare's or Deno's decision? And why?

> a genuinely good tool that enriches your thinking

A smartphone is also a genuinely good all-around tool. Even social media is a genuinely good tool for connecting people.

Yet, I feel like we've been overly optimistic about the impact of said tools on us and our societies in the past two decades.

Smartphones are so good, in fact, in some societies, half of us are addicted to them. Billions of people world-wide.

I ask myself: Will LLMs enrich my thinking in the long run, or will they ruin it?

And what about most people? Will half of us outsource most of our thinking in a decade from now?

Given the speed and global scale that we're running these experiments with, it's fair, I think, to be a bit sceptical of the conclusion that, in the long run, LLMs will enrich our thinking.

What do you mean by corrupted?

Been using Deno happily for many years now.

Did I miss anything?

> > I don't understand how none of the alternatives really embrace WinterTC

> You provide handlers that fulfil requests from the system.

As I said previously, though I wish they were, such handlers are not part of WinterTC.

And then again, how those handlers are registered is also not part of WinterTC, which I also wish it were.

> APIs like that leak implementation details

How?

Almost all runtimes, like Bunny Edge Scripting, Cloudflare Workers, Deno, Bun, etc. use the same basic signature for the handler:

(request: Request) => Promise<Response>

Only how you register said handler is, unfortunately, different for each runtime.

AFAIC, WinterTC doesn't specify how to start an HTTP server. Their minimum common API requires, among other things, that the Request and Response interfaces from the fetch specification are present. Unfortunately, it does not specify any sort of serve function.

> Is there still a real-world use case for XHTML

If I need the markup of a page to not contain any structural errors, I often use XHTML for testing at least because, though it's a little more verbose, if there's a nesting error, for example, the browser will flat out refuse to render it and show some sort of stacktrace error page instead. So it's quite a good built-in "tool" for checking that your markup is clean.

With HTML, everything goes and the browser will happily render broken markup, which is probably the correct default for the web as a whole. After all, you surely don't want a page like Wikipedia to show an error message to its users because a developer forgot to close a tag somewhere.

Switching to Deno might help. It's sandboxed by default and offers granular escape hatches. So if a script needs access to a specific environment variable or read or write specific files, it's simple to configure that only those accesses are allowed.

From my experience, most simple websites are fine with XSLT 1.0 and don't experience any performance problems.