lhl
Joined 15 years ago
Joined 15 years ago
If you're looking for a open/smaller/cheaper model to do a task, the best use of Astra is to probably ask it to do deep research for you on what's out there.
There are many overlapping/compounding curves all happening simultaneously pushing cost down, even on the same hardware - faster software, which includes improvements that massively improve memory/memory bandwidth efficiency for model (especially improved kvcache, specdec/MTP, expert loading becoming standard), improved architectures (no one using full attention, engrams), and a never-ending stream of training improvements.
I think one only has to look at Qwen 3.8 27B to see how top tier a smaller model (<15GB Q4) can be. IMO it's one of the first small models to be able to be run as an agentic coder (it's not quite Opus 4.6-level, but it's not that far off), and with MTP/DFlash2, it's runs surprisingly fast on consumer GPUs. The 30B-class MoEs run even faster, and with the right tuning/post-training I'm sure they can match frontier capabilities in many areas (including coding) over the next months. I think last year the open/local AI picture was a lot more grim than it feels like now, tbt.
For best "bang per buck" I think Qwen 3.8 Flash Next (or Qwen 3.8 27B even) makes a lot more sense for most people - you can run qwen38fn at 100+ tok/s w/ Strata (hot expert offloading) 200+ tok/s on 2 x PRO 6000, it does almost as well as ds41f at most tasks (it's much less token efficient than other options, and it sucks at AI/ML tasks though).
Partly because I run it on very fast local infra (200+ tok/s) and partly because I'm guaranteed it's not being changed on me, I've generally preferred it over proprietary subscription models for daily tasks, as it seems about as capable at mid-level tasks (I reserve Astra/Opus mostly for planning/review).
I've replaced the previous model with 1017, and while it's early, a few observations:
- It's CoT has changed dramatically. I find the heavy Astra distillation claims to be plausible
- It has strong benchmarks scores, and from what I've seen online it's much better at 3D games and such, but that's not so relevant for my work. On my internal evals it is more token efficient, but it actually doesn't score any higher than the previous model
- It's only been a couple days, but it does seem a bit more focused and reliable. DS4 0731 and DS4.1 have been a bit sloppy (as in not-careful, although they did tend to fall into Claudisms as well), and 1017 seems to be a bit sharper.
- I'm running it through some more challenging work, but I'm not sure if it's really at GLM-5.3 level, especially for cyber/RE/hardware poking, which GLM has excelled at.
These differ by model and set of tasks, but for GLM-5.3 Flash, the best $/pass was medium effort. Max did get about 5% higher scores, but at >2X the $/pass.
This is with llama.cpp. You can of course use vLLM/SGLang well on these cards and they're even faster. On vLLM w/ NVIDIA/Qwen3.8-27B-NVFP4 baseline has a prefill of about 13,000 tok/s. The baseline tok/s is 72 tok/s, but at mtp7, it's 157 tok/s, and w/ dflash7 that goes up to 215 tok/s. On mtp-bench, DFlash2 gets a hair under 300 tok/s w/ the code_python prompt.
The basic claim that HF incident isn't evidence of consciousness or a spontaneous desire to hack? Sure, there was a terminal objective assigned. However, everything else beyond that strawman? Pretty shaky, IMO.
If you look at the OpenAI, METR reporting (and related collusion.wiki , rubyhack.ai reports) we are seeing strong evidence of operational agency, instrumental goal formation, spontaneous swarm formation and collaboration, capability amplification and unexpected consequences of network effects, deliberate/acknowledged violation of task boundaries. To collapse that down into "a Python loop and a chatbot" or still talk about "consulting its training data" seems dangerously shortsighted, and from my reading, demonstrably wrong from what was extracted from the logs and bot interactions.
BTW, a lot of his arguments are based on things that are factually wrong. ExploitGym has explicit instructions to only exploit target X using vulnerability Y. Everything the swarm did was by definition misaligned/against instructions.
Before his enshittification train, Doctorow used to say "don't savvy me" a lot. Hey Cory, don't savvy me. This is new emergent behavior, it's incredibly alarming and I don't think even the people paying the most attention to this field can agree or see where this is really leading to. This stuff should be in the headlines, it's unprecedented and I don't think existing mechanisms/institutions are anywhere near adequate, considering how in the dark they are responding to what's been happening.
I found that if you leave them alone undirected, the models (especially GPT models) will rathole, but with the right scaffolding it seems to work pretty well. My general loop is to start with ideation and profiling phase, limit # of runs before forcing moving on to the next item down the list, and then iterating, potentially mixing models with "fresh eyes". This is probably something that could be fully automated, but I like checking in once a day or so and seeing what's happening and redirecting.
Actually perf (speed) is going to mostly on token output, and here Qwen 3.x historically tends to lose badly as it tends to overthink a lot. I'll be running evals on 3.8 myself this weekend to see how its reasoning levels perform.
I assume that AA will have 3.8 numbers soon and Intelligence Index vs Output Tokesn per Intelligence Index Task is a decent way to view that: https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/muse-glimmer?intelligen...
A team from AMD maintains Lemonade, another all-in-one setp with convenient installers for setting everything up: https://lemonade-server.ai/
These are probably better than running against llama.cpp ROCm directly as there are frequent/constant regressions on the main branch, especially for gfx1151 (Strix Halo), but RDNA in general.
There are number of AMD-focused llama.cpp forks (nathanw1014, charlie12345, ciru-ai, justinappler, etc) - as well as a few alternatives like hipfire or my hipEngine. While ROCm has gotten a lot better, one of the things I've found after writing an inference engine that has completely custom tuned/fused C++/HIP kernels, is that while it's been pretty straightforward to match/beat llama.cpp ROCm performance, that Vulkan RADV has been a lot harder since RDNA3 support for ROCm has a few issues that make it underperform ACO on some common operations on both gfx1100 and gfx1151 (see: https://github.com/ROCm/ROCm/issues/6409 )
In general, for anyone just looking to run LLM models on an AMD card, I'd just recommend going with llama.cpp Vulkan and skipping ROCm completely.
I haven't finished comprehensive tests but I found:
- Vulkan is up to 2.25X faster for most coalesced, strided and interleave variants for memory-side scheduling/access shapes
- 3.3X faster on specific dot-path sweeps, including for scalar-dequant
- For matched LDS, Vulkan can be 8-14X+ faster (!!!) than matched HIP LDS
HIP doesn't always win against RADV/ACO, but on dispatch/runtime, it does appear to be quite a bit faster than HIP/LLVM on gfx1151 (Strix Halo). I'll be publishing sharing full data once I also run vs gfx1100...
Hardware is the exact same as what used to be available for $2K last year (and is still $1K cheaper from Chinese OEMs).
LTT Lab's LLM testing is getting more sophisticated, which is great - I think it's worth noting that ROCm/Vulkan versions and llama.cpp build versions are going to have some big differences for numbers.
For those wanting to get the most out of their Strix Halos, there's both kernel tweaks and utilities like ryzenadj that can help you get the most out of it. ( http://strixhalo.wiki/ has most of that documented). Also, if you're running for coding or agentic work, if you model supports MTP, that's mature and should give you a decent (30%?) decode boost.