jon128

Joined 13 days ago

Karma
8
Submissions
103
Member since
Oct 18
Still surfing the I accidentally into an enchanting couple of decades being surrounded by stellar technology colleagues, some entrepreneurs I believe are some of the greatest living Americans, and some who are a mix of both.. 'cause I thought staying up until 2am burning BSD and Linux ISOs and reading Eric Raymond's site was more interesting than not sleeping through most of my 10th grade classes (except on test days) and being outside with my friends or playing Counter Strike or Starcraft instead of ever ever doing the assigned homework.

If you got into comp sci because you thought you wanted to land a good job somewhere, and not a better reason, I'm probably not going to like you and even more probably going to write something that upsets you. Everything posted by this user handle is satire (or sometimes not).

I like to talk about my own viewpoints (who doesn't) but I like even more when others have something of meaningful substance to share.

Studies show that normal testosterone levels correlate with "Yes, you are all wrong".

If you want to DM, I am generally open to chat. Generate a https://SimpleX.chat invite and paste it into a file simplex-invite.txt, then run the commands below and include pasted contents of DM.txt in one of your comments in any thread we're both participating in.

  gpg  \
   --keyserver hkps://keyserver.ubuntu.com  \
   --recv-keys 0x942BE161A92542910BFDEA5CC95D2B7BA7A1AFD4

  echo -n hello__   >   DM.txt
  cat  simplex-invite.txt  \
   | gpg -e -R 942BE161A92542910BFDEA5CC95D2B7BA7A1AFD4 \
   | base64 -w0     >>  DM.txt


  # optional manual key import
  echo  "
  mJMEaGcZgBMJKyQDAwIIAQENBAMEYHVrC63Y14QRtTzZjW04Gm8+f0y3mvLKQ1zo21BDkUFAyJdfW7FzWBKKc1moZdLcA50oNFSD8oSkAH6I3W4770gIHxadqrMiFpTJLpsHITkC+mcvbYnt9m3tGzhe+wh7uNTwSxxyHEMbrAm/X7htD6HyZVvn+zAb1u405OBgriS0BmpvbjEyOIjZBBMTCgBBFiEElCvhYaklQpEL/epcyV0re6ehr9QFAmhnGYACGyMFCQKnnUAFCwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AACgkQyV0re6ehr9Rc8wH+NRKbP17P+EGilYCfWWUyVi0O+Dpq8wVjCWgMCPICKCR2NTIZg0xbh9icHw3K59yyXWZuy4Gj0yNubKh8XPRKLAH9FM1poMFUGCeedB18DYFGjwvOGQ9ZCYtW07C8gu1ptgM40k0lnYBdrbJ7SNugjnenEP3yUPjF4vopYa5S3N7grbiXBGhnGYASCSskAwMCCAEBDQQDBFQpl9cUj1qlWwyN7478QUnrxT7kFp8eeUADiVztZT8g7M+x/f7vSiN8+amgo9TYYgX780fIzO2ixD+GYBucqzdUz9l385QGHPWOKzjVh+B/GoeOGWTl4lejNhfXoJs8Ph/ju+cvbcnAlKjrGIAA4HQ6SEZ8xy3XOGk6kymCPZXrAwEKCYi+BBgTCgAmFiEElCvhYaklQpEL/epcyV0re6ehr9QFAmhnGYACGwwFCQKnnUAACgkQyV0re6ehr9T4PgIAhuv8uoctJ3MFIwYYsIE+NtebhKulMIzeXVJwafVPVwlHR5JNF8ge+Q989PoZlPhnJmG379yjMUl1ruqPIc/IDwIAkDijpELqaX6xG5F4GuQbOPVHttDXOOJ6GJ/VAlOkeRNY7rho5G9yg8etleja3cSEKQ7GEnOcG7fVK75pZWkNcg==
  "  |  base64 --decode  |  gpg --import
View on Hacker News

Recent submissions

Comment · 1 hour ago
The service operated by the incorporated 501c3 has full visibility into who else a user messages and when. This is not good for privacy.

What the non-low-value users are generally looking for is the option to not opt-in to discard anonymity with any potentially involved third parties such as server operators and network operators, and left at the discretion of the users solely.

Other systems have already solved this. One user can be not anonymous while another can choose to not opt-in to not be anonymous.

The users still know who the user on the other side is.

Comment · 2 hours ago
Anyone who has worked with SQL databases and graph databases can't buy this goofy "camouflage" idea.

If you don't know how computers work, yeah it sounds great. But those who do know how computers work see it for what it really is: a bucket of shit.

Comment · 4 hours ago
>> I don't think this is what Moxie wanted.

> I think this is exactly what he wanted

You think, users should be required to carry a cell phone or make use of a debit card or credit card, in order to message another user, is exactly, what Matthew wanted?

A self-described anarchist who described the original cypherpunks as his teenage heroes?

When XMPP+OTR had already been, among competent people, the prevalent norm for over half a decade when he gave that DEF CON 18 talk?

That is just crazy, man.

In that DEF CON 18 talk, Moxie talked about scope of choice and how the scope of choice changed to "do I want to carry a cell phone, or not?". A notion that Matthew's dream was to impose on the world a demand to carry a cell phone or a debit/credit card transaction on others, such a tax, to enjoy what he and his friends and colleagues already on top of pure Internet Protocol, is on its face absurd.

_

> Spam is not a plague because registration remains expensive

The issue of spam is fully mitigated with an invite token, a 16 byte string ; "is", not "can be", because other systems in production have already been doing this.

The way it works is simple. If Alice wants to receive a message from Bob, Alice can share a connection string username+token to Bob. Then Bob can message Alice and for that time not other users of the hosted centralized namespace.

Very simple concept.

Simple enough for a mediocre dev to implement without an LLM.

The spectre of spam does not justify the demand for "checking in" with your local PSTN tower, nor the friction involved with an uninvolved and unwanted third party named Google (love Google overall but this is such a bastardly and disgusting concept), nor does it justify demanding a debit/credit card transaction become involved.

The spectre of spam does not justify any of this horse shit.

"Hey Bob, here is my username to message me, provided you subject yourself to this horse shit", where such horse shit antithetical in a fundamental way to the values espoused founder of Signal.

The new, grossly degenerated Scope of Choice.

Perhaps some who call themselves "hackers" or software developers may have been actually fooled by this false spectre of spam. I was never among them.

Even worse, the phone numbers, Google Play accounts, debit cards and credit cards, these are cheap. Among the scammer underworld these are a plenty and fungible.

An invite token personally sent by Alice or read aloud by Alice to Bob, is not.

But if somebody wants to harass a specific user on Signal, that's relatively cheap to do.

_

> Not to mention that sending ongoing traffic to your own server tells everyone where and when you're posting

Uncle Jeff, AWS, who doesn't tell exactly everyone but a lot of people, not excluding ICE at any given time, knows when you are posting, from where, and to what other users. The last of which is specifically obviated by a separate namespace hosted on a separate server.

On the occasions I have run Signal's server software, I and other users did mitigate these concerns. We do appreciate that others also have these means, or not.

Another messaging system, you may have already read its name actually, has already solved these problems in a way that they are successfully mitigated in a wholly transparent way for casual users.

_

> Alternative servers are not sapping user metrics.

This imperative is not the users' problem and runs counter to the best interests of the users.

_

> Its tradeoffs all the way down.

Right. In Matthew's view, the horse shit is a tradeoff.

I believe there are other tradeoffs available that are ethical, not more ethical, but ethical, and carry much less technical complexity.

Comment · 7 hours ago
The incorporated 501c3 named Signal is, in IT terms, a vendor. Is it not?

The Signal client software is open source and some of the clients have reproducible builds. The Signal server software is open source, though has a history of being over a year out of date at some points. Other deployments of this server software for production use are rare.

Suppose you configured an instance of the Signal server software and others you know ran also a somewhat modified Signal client that could access that instance of the Signal server software.

But the centralized namespace of the hosted Signal service hosted by the incorporated 501c3 named Signal would not be accessible through that server instance now would it.

And, as dictated by the incorporated vendor of the centralized namespace, and other reasons, in practice, this client would have to run as a separate piece of software. "Another app".

This is vendor lock-in.

The service hosted by the 501c3 named Signal seems widely open yet is a permissioned namespace. A physical location tracking number aka phone number or a credit/debit card is required to access the namespace. This is for slaves. The profane.

  Open Signal on your phone to keep your account active
This vendor is abusive.

And, I don't think this is what Moxie wanted.

Signal 501c3 is a centralized service. XMPP and Matrix are decentralized/federated. SimpleX is distributed.

Comment · 19 hours ago
Yeah I had later noticed that too. Much of the US companies do end up resolving to IPv6.

100% of the aforementioned US gov domains resolve to IPv6.

More 5G networks than not are using IPv6 and 464xlat. Many ISPs are IPv6 only too so closer to half the time than not there are IPv6 packets to reach to those IPv4 addresses.

  $   for  USCompany  in    apple akamai att berkshire bestbuy boeing bofa burgerking cnn chase chevron citi comcast costco cvs dell disney fedex fidelity gatorade google goldmansachs gopro hellofresh hilton homedepot infowars in-n-out jcpenny johnsonandjohnson kaiser kroger lulumon macys mcdonalds microsoft nike pepsi petco radioshack safeway shell southwest sprouts statefarm tacobell target tesla traderjoes ups usbank uschamber walgreens walmart wellsfargo wholefoods yahoo    aquantuo atlanticseafarms beehivemeals beetlesplumbing dynamicautomotive jamies-farm joeandbella jovyco privacy4cars prosperityehr redroostercoffee resortlifecarts sproutlabs tradedesignbuild 
    do
      echo ${USCompany}
      dig +short aaaa www.${USCompany}.com
      echo  ; done
  apple
  www-apple-com.v.aaplimg.com.
  www.apple.com.edgekey.net.
  e6858.dsce9.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:3a00:493::1aca
  2600:1406:3a00:492::1aca
  2600:1406:3a00:494::1aca
  2600:1406:3a00:486::1aca
  2600:1406:3a00:48a::1aca
  
  akamai
  www.akamai.com.edgekey.net.
  2600:1406:2e00:49::172e:d8cf
  2600:1406:2e00:49::172e:d8c6
  
  att
  prod-www.zr-att.com.akadns.net.
  cac2.m.att.com.edgekey.net.
  e11697.cd.akamaiedge.net.
  
  berkshire
  3tfzq88u2cbx.wpeproxy.com.
  
  bestbuy
  www.bestbuy.com.edgekey.net.
  e5816.x.akamaiedge.net.
  
  boeing
  d1pt7e7bvjlgwo.cloudfront.net.
  2600:9000:24bc:7a00:16:a4e1:f600:93a1
  2600:9000:24bc:3600:16:a4e1:f600:93a1
  2600:9000:24bc:b400:16:a4e1:f600:93a1
  2600:9000:24bc:e000:16:a4e1:f600:93a1
  2600:9000:24bc:6e00:16:a4e1:f600:93a1
  2600:9000:24bc:be00:16:a4e1:f600:93a1
  2600:9000:24bc:fc00:16:a4e1:f600:93a1
  2600:9000:24bc:c000:16:a4e1:f600:93a1
  
  bofa
  redirect.ecglb.bac.com.
  
  burgerking
  prod-bk-us-web.com.rbi.tools.
  
  cnn
  cnn-tls.map.fastly.net.
  2a04:4e42:200::773
  2a04:4e42:400::773
  2a04:4e42:600::773
  2a04:4e42::773
  
  chase
  gtm.www.chase.com.akadns.net.
  www.chase.com.edgekey.net.
  e129412.a.akamaiedge.net.
  
  chevron
  www-afd-b9aycqabggbkcsdt.z01.azurefd.net.
  mr-z01.tm-azurefd.net.
  2603:1061:14:95::1
  
  citi
  san.www.citi.com.edgekey.net.
  e16976.x.akamaiedge.net.
  
  comcast
  www.comcast.com.edgekey.net.
  e523.dscb.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:3a00:482::20b
  2600:1406:3a00:48d::20b
  
  costco
  costco.map.fastly.net.
  
  cvs
  www.cvs.edgekey.net.
  e5769.x.akamaiedge.net.
  
  dell
  www1.dell-cidr.akadns.net.
  cdn-www.dell.com-v2.edgekey.net.
  e13665.x.akamaiedge.net.
  
  disney
  www-cdn.matterhorn.app.
  
  fedex
  www.fedex.com.akadns.net.
  cidr.fedex.com.akadns.net.
  ipv6www.fedex.com.edgekey.net.
  e111296.dsca.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:2e00:49::172e:d8cc
  2600:1406:2e00:49::172e:d8c8
  2600:1406:2e00:49::172e:d8d0
  2600:1406:2e00:49::172e:d8ca
  2600:1406:2e00:49::172e:d8c4
  
  fidelity
  www.fidelity.com.edgekey.net.
  e94446.x.akamaiedge.net.
  
  gatorade
  2606:4700:4409::ac40:9261
  2a06:98c1:3105::6812:299f
  
  google
  2001:4860:482d:7700::
  2001:4860:482a:7700::
  2001:4860:4828:7700::
  2001:4860:4827:7700::
  2001:4860:482c:7700::
  2001:4860:4826:7700::
  2001:4860:4829:7700::
  2001:4860:482b:7700::
  
  goldmansachs
  www.gs.com.
  www.gs.com.edgekey.net.
  e17133.x.akamaiedge.net.
  
  gopro
  d1h7n50c10z72v.cloudfront.net.
  2600:9000:201e:6800:17:765c:a5c0:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:4c00:17:765c:a5c0:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:a200:17:765c:a5c0:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:2400:17:765c:a5c0:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:a800:17:765c:a5c0:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:fe00:17:765c:a5c0:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:ca00:17:765c:a5c0:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:c200:17:765c:a5c0:93a1
  
  hellofresh
  www.hellofresh.com.cdn.cloudflare.net.
  2606:4700:4409::6812:209d
  2a06:98c1:3106::ac40:9b63
  
  hilton
  www.hilton.com.edgekey.net.
  e2904.dscx.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:2e00:49a::b58
  2600:1406:2e00:4a3::b58
  
  homedepot
  www.homedepot.com.edgekey.net.
  e301254.x.akamaiedge.net.
  
  infowars
  2606:4700:10::6814:1a60
  2606:4700:10::ac42:9d27
  
  in-n-out
  sw6cs.x.incapdns.net.
  
  jcpenny
  www.jcpenny.com.edgesuite.net.
  a1441.b.akamai.net.
  
  johnsonandjohnson
  prod.jnj.psdops.com.
  
  kaiser
  kaiser.com.
  2001:1ab0:7e1e:151::58
  
  kroger
  www.kroger.com.edgekey.net.
  e8023.a.akamaiedge.net.
  
  lulumon
  lulumon.com.
  
  macys
  www.macys.com.edgekey.net.
  e5791.a.akamaiedge.net.
  
  mcdonalds
  direct-san.mcdonalds.com.edgekey.net.
  e179224.a.akamaiedge.net.
  
  microsoft
  www.microsoft.com-c-3.edgekey.net.
  e13678.dscb.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:3a00:487::356e
  2600:1406:3a00:486::356e
  2600:1406:3a00:497::356e
  2600:1406:3a00:481::356e
  2600:1406:3a00:482::356e
  
  nike
  www.nike.com-v1.edgekey.net.
  e2785.x.akamaiedge.net.
  
  pepsi
  g2wh497.x.incapdns.net.
  
  petco
  2a06:98c1:3108::6812:20c7
  2a06:98c1:310a::ac40:9b39
  
  radioshack
  prod.magentocloud.map.fastly.net.
  2a04:4e42::380
  2a04:4e42:200::380
  2a04:4e42:400::380
  2a04:4e42:600::380
  
  safeway
  htu5x69.x.incapdns.net.
  
  shell
  www.nic.shell.edgekey.net.
  e200089.dscb.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:3a00:33::170b:cfef
  2600:1406:3a00:33::170b:cfe6
  
  southwest
  www.southwest.com.edgekey.net.
  e7466.a.akamaiedge.net.
  
  sprouts
  2606:4700:10::ac42:9705
  2606:4700:10::6814:2445
  
  statefarm
  statefarm.edgekey.net.
  e124943.a.akamaiedge.net.
  
  tacobell
  www.tacobell-prod.com.edgekey.net.
  e78335.b.akamaiedge.net.
  
  target
  sites.target.map.fastly.net.
  
  tesla
  www.tesla.com.edgekey.net.
  e1792.dscx.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:3a00:291::700
  2600:1406:3a00:280::700
  2600:1406:3a00:293::700
  2600:1406:3a00:290::700
  2600:1406:3a00:296::700
  
  traderjoes
  www.traderjoes.com.edgekey.net.
  e4528.b.akamaiedge.net.
  
  ups
  ev.ups.com.akadns.net.
  ev2b.ups.com.edgekey.net.
  e13626.dsca.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:2e00:986::353a
  2600:1406:2e00:98b::353a
  2600:1406:2e00:983::353a
  2600:1406:2e00:984::353a
  
  usbank
  www.usbank.com.edgekey.net.
  e374753.a.akamaiedge.net.
  
  uschamber
  uschamber.map.fastly.net.
  
  walgreens
  walgreens.com.edgekey.net.
  e36070.dsca.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:2e00:20::45c0:8be8
  2600:1406:2e00:20::45c0:8bda
  
  walmart
  www.walmart.com.cdn-wal.net.
  
  wellsfargo
  www.wellsfargo.com.edgekey.net.
  e82164.b.akamaiedge.net.
  
  wholefoods
  2600:9000:25ef:c800:8:df9e:eb80:93a1
  2600:9000:25ef:e000:8:df9e:eb80:93a1
  2600:9000:25ef:7400:8:df9e:eb80:93a1
  2600:9000:25ef:6400:8:df9e:eb80:93a1
  2600:9000:25ef:ca00:8:df9e:eb80:93a1
  2600:9000:25ef:9e00:8:df9e:eb80:93a1
  2600:9000:25ef:5400:8:df9e:eb80:93a1
  2600:9000:25ef:fa00:8:df9e:eb80:93a1
  
  yahoo
  me-ycpi-cf-www.g06.yahoodns.net.
  2001:4998:18:800::4003
  2001:4998:18:800::4002
  
  aquantuo
  2606:4700:20::681a:2e
  2606:4700:20::681a:12e
  2606:4700:20::ac43:4547
  
  atlanticseafarms
  2606:4700:3033::6815:4581
  2606:4700:3035::ac43:d0b4
  
  beehivemeals
  beehivemeals.myshopify.com.
  shops.myshopify.com.
  2620:127:f00f:e::
  
  beetlesplumbing
  s.multiscreensite.com.
  global.multiscreensite.com.
  a3c02b2530d6f27ca.awsglobalaccelerator.com.
  
  dynamicautomotive
  dynamicautomotive.com.
  
  jamies-farm
  shops.myshopify.com.
  2620:127:f00f:e::
  
  joeandbella
  joebella.myshopify.com.
  shops.myshopify.com.
  2620:127:f00f:e::
  
  jovyco
  jovy-brand.myshopify.com.
  shops.myshopify.com.
  2620:127:f00f:e::
  
  privacy4cars
  2606:4700:20::681a:dca
  2606:4700:20::ac43:4af6
  2606:4700:20::681a:cca
  
  prosperityehr
  2606:4700:10::6814:2f68
  2606:4700:10::ac42:94bd
  
  redroostercoffee
  cname.vercel-dns.com.
  
  resortlifecarts
  sprod-dnn-gce6a8hab5g5bkf6.a03.azurefd.net.
  mr-a03.tm-azurefd.net.
  2603:1061:14:99::1
  
  sproutlabs
  cdn.webflow.com.
  2620:cb:2000::1
  
  tradedesignbuild
  ext-sq.squarespace.com.



  $   for  USent  in    cia congress dhs epa ice fbi fcc nasa nsa whitehouse
    do
      echo ${USent}
      dig +short aaaa www.${USent}.gov
      echo  ; done
  cia
  cia.gov.edgekey.net.
  e10004744.dsca.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:3a00:33::170b:cfeb
  2600:1406:3a00:33::170b:cff2
  
  congress
  2606:4700:4402::ac40:90ce
  2a06:98c1:3109::6812:2b32
  
  dhs
  www.dhs.gov.edgekey.net.
  e6485.dsca.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:2e00:98b::1955
  2600:1406:2e00:983::1955
  
  epa
  d32i4z0dxazdtp.cloudfront.net.
  2600:9000:201e:a600:10:f3db:af40:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:f400:10:f3db:af40:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:6000:10:f3db:af40:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:c400:10:f3db:af40:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:b600:10:f3db:af40:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:d200:10:f3db:af40:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:d600:10:f3db:af40:93a1
  2600:9000:201e:6400:10:f3db:af40:93a1
  
  ice
  www.ice.gov.edgekey.net.
  e6485.dsca.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:2e00:98b::1955
  2600:1406:2e00:983::1955
  
  fbi
  www.fbi.gov.cdn.cloudflare.net.
  2606:4700::6810:94f4
  2606:4700::6810:95f4
  
  fcc
  www.fcc.gov.edgekey.net.
  e4909.dscb.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:3a00:484::132d
  2600:1406:3a00:497::132d
  
  nasa
  nasa-gov.go-vip.net.
  2a04:fa87:fffd::c000:426c
  
  nsa
  nsa.gov.edgekey.net.
  e16248.dscb.akamaiedge.net.
  2600:1406:3a00:487::3f78
  2600:1406:3a00:496::3f78
  
  whitehouse
  wh47.go-vip.net.
  2a04:fa87:fffd::c000:4233
Comment · 22 hours ago
Nintendo Wii have made for neat zero knowledge Nostr relays, mesh-net (CJDNS) routers, and other makeshift "underground" infrastructure.

USB hubs, USB SATA adapters and USB Ethernet interfaces for the win.

Comment · 23 hours ago
The "you need to enable cookies to view this site", cookies that will be limited to a browser-container and will be thrown away when the browser is closed anyway, is a sign that this modern nu web is broken in a fundamental way.
Comment · 23 hours ago
> They can't "async" their way out of that work.

Sharing cookies along a strata of inter-team bots is one trick.

_

Web scraping is (among the other pieces) also for the more technically inclined among the "little people" to have computers do things that people they don't have the money to hire might do. Making web scraping more difficult, which won't stop the big players who will work around the hurdles one way or another, is "pulling up the ladder".

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> What alternative web could change this state of things?

A different architecture for trafficking web contents, one that doesn't need the "shield" of something like Cloudflare or "tar pit" of something like Anubis in the first place.

IPFS is or is something like one piece of that picture but there are other essential pieces to complete that picture.

Comment · 23 hours ago

  Federal Cyber Experts Thought Microsoft’s Cloud Was “a Pile of Shit.” They Approved It Anyway.

  https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-cloud-fedramp-cybersecurity-government
Comment · 1 day ago
The status thing really got turned on it head around late 2015 when more GetThingsDone oriented groups detected that Facebook was actively engineering social consensus through orchestrated shadowbanning.

The prigs are oh so high status .. to other prigs.

Comment · 1 day ago
Any bot is operating on behalf of one or more humans somewhere. Bots are good, for the most part.

The conventional way of doing web isn't efficient. If it were, no one would be complaining about bots. The way we do web is the thing that needs to be updated.

Comment · 1 day ago
Feels. AKA stupidity, ultimately.
Comment · 1 day ago
They got an image of something, yeah.

Or, did they?

  "So we had been perfecting these imaging algorithms on synthetic data. We’d fed these algorithms made-up data. So we would take a black hole image that we might be looking at. We’d corrupt it with noise, and we’d send it through these algorithms, and we’d refine these to the point where we were pretty confident in these algorithms."
Algorithms? For what? So they're not just taking a photo of something observed through a telescope.

They're not really explaining this either.

I'm trying to keep an open mind but I'm still not buying the whole black hole thing.

There needs to be something more intellectually compelling than "we know it's a black hole because we know it's a black hole".

Yes, you read that right. I am doubting this religion.

  "That was a moment where there was a lot of crying and screaming."
another odd quote from this article, provided one is assuming this is supposed to be around the scientific method.

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