ivanbakel
Joined 9 years ago
Joined 9 years ago
>Is there an example that really benefits from these features?
That question would be easier to answer if you would spell out what you don't find compelling about the article's example, beyond the fact that you can identify a reason for the error to occur.
For streaming services, I think the development-hosting needle swings way towards hosting. Streaming video is the vast majority of their costs and efforts, so scaling prices per-user is the only sensible option. The "software" of those services is bad and interchangeable, and not what anyone wants or is paying for in the first place.
However, I think there is a middle ground between the "naturally verifiable" and the difficult cases. Certain domains, like banking apps, can want correctness guarantees about UI behaviour. A closed-off app can be very normative, so in theory specs like "the user did this action and confirmed it" can be made meaningful. But tying specs to UI is a tricky thing, and it's clearly volatile in a way function boundaries are not - apps go through redesigns, styles and elements move, etc. The abstraction of a UI as a state machine isn't hard to imagine, but actually hooking a spec into the program is a problem unto itself, and the common response is to simply ignore these problematic domains and do something easier like a backend spec that doesn't have to deal with the questions that aren't PL-shaped.
>Age verification will be a significant loss for social media companies. It's going to push plenty of people away, and it provides no information that they don't already know to a reasonably high degree of certainty.
It may push some people away (though with the centralisation of the internet, I think this is easy to overstate), but the social media companies probably aren't that worried. Their bigger threat is actual legislation and punishment. Age-gating prevents the government from coming down on them for bad moderation, since they can just block users from accessing anything that might need to be moderated otherwise.
The possibility that age verification will actually give them more data or let them track you more easily is a nice little plus, but this is more stick than carrot.
This is not an exclusive or. Corporate lobbyists from social media have a real incentive for pushing age verification and attestation. They benefit from public outcry and popular movements for age restrictions online, while also presenting age verification as the only solutions to the problems causing that outcry (which is to say, largely moderation problems on their own websites).
It's also a criticism of management-heavy offices who have lost touch with reality, but consultants are a byword for such things, so I guess the title is succinct at the cost of accuracy.
It is quite believable that it's easier to describe what a program should result in versus actually programming it to produce that result - especially in the most common settings targeted by verification, which is to say imperative, stateful programs or algortihms with a high degree of non-obvious optimisations. The simplest example is a sorting algorithm, which normally has a trivial spec but a non-trivial state at each step.
Interestingly, some specs are actually programs themselves, as has also been true for many on-paper specs which are actually reference implementations. Research using programs-as-specs is still pretty valuable, since in some domains a simpler program is actually the right and useful way to talk about a messier one.
How do you think the backdoor situation would have been resolved if xz hadn't been open-source?
0: https://lobste.rs/s/7s4sjp/u_fdfd_arabic_ligature_bismillah_...