haagch
Joined 9 years ago
Karma
124
Submissions
28
Member since
Aug 9
Recent submissions
Comment · 3 months ago
Comment · 3 months ago
Will it work the same only for users who use banking apps for ideal, or also for users who use their banking websites to pay with ideal? It's a rhetorical question, right now people can only give their opinion what their statements mean or not. We'll have to wait until the end of next year to see what's actually going to happen. Unless EPI or banks decide to publish an actual roadmap with actual features.
Comment · 3 months ago
You'd think that basic infrastructure such as payment systems had higher standards than just "most" people having access to it.
It's fine as long as we have alternatives, but if online shops were to start to phase out SEPA payments in favor of Wero and Wero-only shops were to start popping it, it would be a real problem.
Btw the solution already exists: It's still relatively small scale but GNU Taler is live in Switzerland. The EU could make regulation to make it easier to adopt at any time it wants.
Comment · 3 months ago
I have German bank accounts at two different banks and can send SEPA SCT instant transactions via webinterface and physical tan generator with both of them. Wero however is restricted to mobile apps regardless of what your tan generator is and in fact from what I heard, banks generally force you to switch to mobile app tan generators when opting into Wero.
The GLS bank implies it's not up to them. Generally I feel like implementation details are intentionally not made public. For example so far there is no definitive statement on the public internet I could find about whether iDEAL web based payments will still be available after iDEAL will actually switch to Wero. Statements like "For consumers, the online payment experience will remain largely unchanged, as they will continue to pay through their own bank." are always kept vague.
Comment · 3 months ago
Replies from the German GLS bank on mastodon imply that EPI does not support the use case where banks add it to their web interface
https://ruhr.social/@glsbank/116215341782832097 https://ruhr.social/@glsbank/116125936995037426
> Good morning, it's not "our" fault. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about it—Wero is a service offered by EPI, and they've decided to take a "mobile-first" approach for now. Warm regards from Bochum!
As for the prospects of ever seeing banking apps outside of android/ios, there is only https://www.das-parlament.de/wirtschaft/finanzen/wir-bauen-m...
> What about smartphones that run on free and open-source software instead of the commercial operating systems used by the iPhone or Google? > Tanja Müller-Ziegler: This market is still very much a niche one. There are still too few providers, which is why it’s hardly worth offering banking apps for these devices.
> Perfect is the enemy of good as always.
I'm no expert on iDEAL, but being 20 years old, it's older than Android and iOS and presumably supported web based payments from the very beginning. I really don't understand why nowadays people seem to think that app exclusivity is somehow a natural starting point. It's a relatively recent invention.
Comment · 3 months ago
It's not the same system. iDEAL supports banks to implement payment in their online banking websites, while Wero is Google/Apple ecosystem exclusive.
Comment · 3 months ago
> No account necessary and no private american conglomerates can delete that account.
Officially you need a Google or Apple account to download a wero capable app from their stores, and Google and Apple can always delete all wero capable apps from their stores like for example with Russian sanctioned banks.
Some banking apps work on non - google play controlled android smartphones, but always only accidentally. Some banks like for example Consorbank already crack down on "sideloading" their app at all: https://www.reddit.com/r/Consorsbank/comments/1p909w1/commen...
Comment · 3 months ago
I feel the same but I'm starting to think that EPI is right to not care.
Nobody from any tech media seems to be pointing out the Google/Apple smartphone dependency, let alone ask anyone at EPI about it. If they do, at least they're not writing about the results.
The only article I know of that ever asked the question is actually from the press of the German government: https://www.das-parlament.de/wirtschaft/finanzen/wir-bauen-m...
"What about smartphones that run on free and open-source software instead of the commercial operating systems used by the iPhone or Google?
Tanja Müller-Ziegler: This market is still very much a niche one. There are still too few providers, which is why it’s hardly worth offering banking apps for these devices."
Other than that I have seen ZERO pressure on this point from the media.
Obviously I do think EPI should intrinsically care, but I also am starting to see more and more that from their point of view literally nobody cares, so why should they?
Comment · 4 months ago
The EU's NGI Zero in cooperation with NLNet has been funding quite a bit of postmarketOS
https://nlnet.nl/project/postmarketOS/
https://nlnet.nl/project/MobileSettings
https://nlnet.nl/project/pmOS-23-24
https://nlnet.nl/project/postmarketOS-daemons
https://nlnet.nl/project/pmOS-25-26
I think if NGI Zero had been around when Meego was killed, we might be in a better situation now.
I also get the feeling, that the fact that there is so little reported and discussed about this funding reflects the actual level of interest in alternatives.
Comment · 4 months ago
> But in many cases there are not any homegrown alternatives to support.
Everyone who says something like this should be forced to use one of the alternatives for at least a couple of months and then reassess why people don't use them.
Personally I'm using a Volla Quintus with Ubuntu Touch (ubports is a German foundation) because I'm a masochist.
Comment · 4 months ago
Here in Germany everyone who has an ID card, which is basically everyone, already has a secure chip for this purpose.
Comment · 6 months ago
Sure.
Something I forgot to mention is that the UBPorts foundation whose mobile operating system I currently use is a German organization.
Comment · 6 months ago
I second the question, attestation of what? I have a Solo key that I use with webauthn for several services already. Is that not good enough and even if not, there surely are sufficient alternatives, least of all the actual electronic id on the national id card via nfc?
Comment · 6 months ago
Lots of hospitals don't even serve healthy food in any sense, so expecting a good coverage of dietary options is optimistic...
But to answer the question in a real way: Veganism is often regarded as just a dietary choice like any other, when in reality courts in several countries have more or less agreed to classify it as a matter of conscience, which would give adherents some right to it. Though it seems German courts have been reluctant to draw much legal consequence from it - so far at least.
So in that sense, I don't think people have been talking about digital sovereignty and abstaining from proprietary software under another country's jurisdiction much as a matter of conscience yet. We can thank Trump that it might actually become a thing though.
Comment · 6 months ago
It really doesn't matter. When you power on an android smartphone with google play installed for the first time you are presented with a gate screen that asks you to consent to google's privacy policy. You can't use the phone without accepting. (for example https://forum.fairphone.com/t/finalising-the-setup-wizard-wi...)
Using smartphones with such a setup should not become required by a European government on a fundamental level.
google translate: https://nos-nl.translate.goog/artikel/2624737-scanner-van-in...
This looks like it proves me wrong and at least two dutch banks will not require a smartphone app to pay with Wero, if this actually refers to the upcoming actual Wero transition.
> At Rabobank, "approximately 8 percent of all transactions" are conducted using the Rabo Scanner, says a spokesperson. A spokesperson says that research shows that 15 percent of customers prefer using the scanner instead of the app because they find the Scanner secure.
> There are no problems at Rabobank with the transition from iDeal to Wero, according to a spokesperson. Therefore, nothing changes for customers who use the Scanner with the transition this autumn.
> At ABN Amro, the tool for making payments via online banking is called the E.dentifier. According to a spokesperson, around 250,000 ABN Amro customers are using this device this month, which is 4 percent of the total. The number of users is declining because, according to the bank, more and more customers are switching to the app.
> Although ABN Amro intends to continue offering the internet banking function, including for payments via Wero, the bank will be phasing out the E.dentifier over the coming year. ABN Amro is currently already in the process of informing the first private customers about the switch to the so-called USB Security Key. The E.dentifier will only disappear once all customers have made the switch.
This gives me some hope that this might also be possible in the rest of Europe...