forloop

As you said yourself,

"You're taking additional sleep hormone by taking it orally. So sleep is melatonin."

Sleep, and sleep with additional sleep hormone aren't the same thing by definition.

> So sleep is melatonin.

By taking melatonin orally you can get levels which aren't possible endogenously. So melatonin supplements != "vanilla" sleep.

Melatonin is also a mitochondrial anti-oxidant, so may benefit people with "brain fog". Such people may well have to take a supplement to get the maximum benefit. A benefit which can't be reached with natural (what is natural?) sleep.

In older individuals, the endogenous production of melatonin is reduced (happens when people get older). They may also benefit for supplementation. A benefit they couldn't get without it! No matter if they wear blue light blocking glasses, or have f.lux on all their machines.

Sometimes people have to do things at night. Where there's light. It's modern life. They can't go back in time and not be exposed to that light. They may also benefit from supplementation.

One could describe it as enhanced sleep.

> The best nootropic is getting a good nights sleep.

The above is a direct quote from OP. Where's the metaphor? You're grossly mistaken!

> but that it is something that performs the same function

Can sleep gives one supranormal cognition? No.

Does sleep perform the same function as modafinil (a drug which gives you more time to work since you need less sleep)? They're nearly opposites.

Does sleep perform the same function as melatonin? A hormone that allows greater sleep "efficiency" than normal sleep. No.

You're grossly incorrect again.

> And I don't think it's derailing the topic to talk about relevant alternatives.

It's a category error.

The sleep conversation is above everything else. It takes focus from the subject at hand.

It happens a lot with noobs. They don't know anything about noots, but know something about sleep/exercise/whatever and decide that's a good topic to talk about.

It's like a conversation about Tesla, and then someone talking about walking—because it's an alternative. OK, the subject may be interesting per se, but it is of little relevance.

You sound like a follower of Ray Peat. He recommends MB, holds that position on fish oil, recommends K2 as a quinone, recommends aspirin, and recommends nicotinamide* (for the NAD+)

From what I can tell—and having experience with MB & his diet)—he's full of shit.

* You should look into that. Nicotinamide inhibits the sirtuins. You'd probably be better off with nicotinic acid or nicotinamide riboside (NR).

Different people have different risk:reward ratios.

You've seen what gwern has written. He makes clear the monetary trade off. He also explains how some of the drugs are well studied, and most probably safe.

These people aren't crazy. You just don't understand...

Quick, let's ban everything except alcohol & cigerettes! They only kill a combined ~7.5 million people per year. Nice and sane.

> GDS is wasting taxpayer money, spending way too much attention on minute details like apostrophes, CSS and stuff.

You're getting downvoted because everyone already knows governments waste taxpayers' money—thus your comment is redundant.

anarcho-capitalists are trump supporters?