evol262
Joined 14 years ago
Joined 14 years ago
This article is focused on containers because when the root OS is immutable, then mutable developer workflows/etc necessarily happen in containers (distrobox, toolbox, whatever). OSTree is/was commonly described as "git for filesystems". Every update is an entirely new system image which applies a 3-way diff. It's possibly to state in a single command "show me the drift in my config files/data versus the ref I'm running" and/or "show me the diff between my running system and an update I may apply".
What happened to Nixon? What happened to OJ Simpson from the victim's family?
They could be based on top of Nix. In practice, it's more likely they'd be based on top of rpm-ostree. But that doesn't do anything to close the gap between the wild west of copr/ppa/aur and "get your application accepted into mainline repos" for someone who wants to distribute their app.
That said, no, Lennart did not/does not do things that way on his personal laptop. His position is that users shouldn't need to know how to configure dnsmasq to have a local caching DNS server, that 99% of the options for dhcpcd aren't used by 99% of users (who are perfectly happy to simply get an address in a fraction of the time), that most users don't need to know how to configure /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-* or /etc/network/interfaces/* for their use case.
If you do, you can disable those things. You can think this is a good opinion or a bad opinion, but at least he's pushing towards some kind of solution which isn't "RTFM". If you think his ideas are bad, propose new ones. Start a project which does it better. "Just don't change anything" is not a meaningful or productive way to design software or operating systems.
Flatpaks/Snaps are almost exactly the same, conceptually, as apps on MacOS. Go look inside something in /Applications/... The .app is a folder, with all of its deps.
> Linux distros have a history of abandoning useful, well-understood technology for fads that then cause power users all kinds of headaches later-on (e.g. by cluttering output of useful tools like mount). Eventually, power users just lose the will to adapt, and move on.
"Power users" have a history of complaining about distro maintainers abandoning useful, well-understood techology because the "power users" don't actually understand the technology, nor do the understand the enormous headaches it causes distro maintainers to put a sane face on 30 year old design philosophies and continue moving forward.
The goal of distro maintainers is to STOP investing endless man hours in trying to make X work with high DPI displays, scaling, high refresh rates, a fundamentally insecure design model, and so on. The goal of systemd is/was for distro maintainers to STOP wasting endless man hours on edge cases because sysvinit didn't have reasonable mechanisms for "if anything in this dependency chain is restarted or changed, re-evaluate it" or "don't try to start this service if the mount isn't available so systems stop hanging on startup if some NFS server isn't available" or whatever.
> In the time of Jenkins et al the burden of creating bistro-specific packages is negligible.
Under the assumption that they are ABI stable, which is a bad one. Otherwise, it's the same old kaleidoscope of mapping out whether it's `libfoo-dev`, `libfoo-devel` for build requirements, whether it's a distro with a completely different naming system, dissecting the ELF header or reversing depchains in Python/Node/whatever to try to find deps and what THOSE are named in some distro, or whether they're even packaged at all, then building for every possible supported version of RHEL, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, SuSE, and down the line.
This is why "power users" aren't an important user model. Arch, Gentoo, Nix, and others exist if you want to be a "power user". Otherwise, extremely naive assumptions about the amount of effort expended by distro/package maintainers hand-wave the complexity away with "duh, just put it in Jenkins."
Flatpak/Snap are essentially a re-invention of putting things in /opt and using LD_LIBRARY_PATH or chrooting. Disk space is much less of a concern than it was before, and sacrificing a little space to AVOID the mess of shit above is a good investment.
That's not that different from the distribution model of Flatpaks/AppImage (or APK, or .app on MacOS/iOS). It's more that, traditionally, Linux packaging solutions try to only have ONE copy of glibc or any other library, and packages are recompiled from source so the symbols resolve. Something which isn't an option on Windows, as a generality.
Complaining that rpm-ostree took 2 minutes to update 2 packages (rpm-ostree downloaded an entirely new pre-baked filesytem snapshot and applied it atomically) is completely missing the point, as is complaining about selinux after swapping out a bunch of system level stuff. This is like the antithesis of the use case for Silverblue, and an author who has somehow never had to build a package for anything but Arch (deb would be much worse) complaining about the difficulty of building RPMs to install/overlay on the host system, which is not the intended use case *anyway*, is silly.
This is around the same time that PA tried to lease their turnpike, and cities all over the US were facing a post-boom hangover when projected revenues from permits and property taxes didn't align with budget realities.
I'm not defending the decision, but it was far more shortsightedness than corruption.
It's true for non-trivial cases, and exceptionally false for some things. Like databases. A lot of the sysctl tuning for large database environments has to be done on the host, either directly, allowing unsafe sysctls and restarting kubelet, running with privileges, etc.
This is not "independent of the underlying infrastructure" or "the VM and my laptop have the same kernel tunables set". They don't. And it matters.