el_pollo_diablo

¡He dejado en libertad los prisioneros y ahora vengo por ti!

> Taking the pointer to payload[] field is in no way different from doing "(char*) x + offsetof(struct node, payload)"

It may differ, depending on the precise notion of provenance being applicable. If provenance only has allocation granularity, I suppose that there is no difference. I know that there were some discussions about provenance and subobjects. I do not know whether the question is resolved.

Where this gets complicated is that zero-sized arrays are non-standard. So even if we could build a convincing argument from standard notions of provenance, how would it transfer to a subobject that is excluded from the standard?

Last but not least, this is not only about creating the effective type through memcpy. The question is also whether this destroys the effective type of the structure. See my previous point about possible padding after 'payload'.

Please also consider that flexible array members are here for a reason. If I follow your argument, then they bring nothing that arrays of length 0 or 1 do not already cover.

> how does this work?

Like this:

  struct thread {
      // Entry in the list of threads of the containing process
      list_node process_entry;
      // Entry in this thread's scheduling queue
      list_node sched_entry;
      // ...
  };

Each struct thread is linked in two lists. When we need to get from a list_node * to the enclosing struct thread, we know from the context which list is being inspected, so we know which one of process_entry or sched_entry to consider for offsetting the pointer.

We mean compatible as defined by the C language standard. It is much more restrictive than having the same layout. In particular, you may not pass a pointer to a type where a pointer to an incompatible type is expected, even if the types have the same layout, which prevents the sort of sharing between two libraries that is being discussed.

Moreover, there is no guarantee that two distinct structure types with the same list of members have the same size or alignment (although in practice they do). The members must nevertheless be laid out in the same way (same offsets, and in the case of bit-fields, same layout inside storage units) due to an obscure constraint on common initial sequences. So the layouts of the structures may differ in the alignment requirement and the amount of trailing padding.

> The structs list_of_A and list_of_B are compatible.

No, they are not. From C23, 6.7.3.4 Tags: Each declaration of a structure, union, or enumerated type which does not include a tag declares a distinct type.

> IIRC GCC and Clang lets character types alias to any type.

It is always legal to access the memory representation of any object as an array of characters. The other way around (interpreting an array of characters as a T, even though it does not have effective type T) is not.

> Otherwise glibc’s malloc also doesn’t abide to strict aliasing.

It may not have to. From the point of view of C, malloc is special because it is part of the implementation. The compiler is free to handle UB as it sees fit. In particular, it can decide that aliasing has different semantics in malloc.c than outside it.

> It does matter, for malloc-returned storage. You can put whatever objects you want into that storage as long as it fits and the pointer is properly aligned.

You can certainly store an object of arbitrary type, but here it is done through a pointer to an object with pointer arithmetic going beyond the allowed bounds.

> memcpy takes a void pointer as its destination, sets the effective type of the storage behind it

And, in doing so, may very well overwrite the unspecified padding following 'payload' in the structure, thus instantly destroying the effective type of the structure object itself. Subsequent accesses to the structure or its members will be UB.

It seems to me that your argument hinges on two assumptions:

    - there is no padding following 'payload' (this would have to be statically asserted),
    - the pointer to 'payload' is indistinguishable from the pointer past the structure; in particular, provenance is not an issue.

That is a very interesting discussion.

> as long as the struct tags are the same

Exactly. Now you have a naming problem. You need a naming convention that every user of the list library must follow, or else their types will be incompatible. And what about typedefs? If A is a typedef of B, or more generally A and B are typedef-related (their normal forms, obtained by following all typedefs, are the same), lists of A and B will be incompatible unless users agree on a common name. The only realistic choice is the normal form, but then this actively works against the abstraction provided by typedef.

And this is just for types. What about functions? While it is legal to do identical definitions of struct list_int, it is not for list_int_init() and list_int_add(). Or global variables: it is legal to do several identical extern declarations, but there can only be one definition; which compilation unit gets to do it?

> There is no OoB access of an array

Yes, there is. It does not matter that storage happens to be allocated beyond the end of said array. Strict aliasing implies that it is UB to reinterpret the array as anything else. And it is UB to access an array out of bounds.

Flexible array members specifically exist for these dynamically-allocated trailing arrays. They do not solve the strict aliasing problem, though.

> if the payload type has an alignment that's greater than the size of a pointer

The amount of padding is implementation-defined. The only portable guarantee is that 'payload' is aligned for its element type, char. To over-align, use _Alignas, as in:

    struct node {
        struct node *next;
        _Alignas(max_align_t) char payload[]; // Satisfies all fundamental alignment requirements
    };

> I do not think a type-safe macro-generated list in C is any more awkward to implement or inferior to a C++ template version.

I have some experience with this, and while this is one of these things that are feasible, I find them significantly inferior to templates in practice.

For one thing, footguns are everywhere in C macro-based metaprogramming. E.g. do not declare the payload as 'payload_type payload;' in the node structure, but choose 'typeof(payload_type) payload;' instead, as someone may pass an array type or function pointer type for 'payload_type'. Speaking of array types, how do you deal with the fact that you cannot pass them by value? I will choose C++ templates' semantic substitution over C macros' textual substitution.

Anyway, to me, the biggest limitation of macro-generation compared to templates is that there is no centralized monomorphization. If an application uses two libraries, each of which handles lists of int, each library will have to independently macro-generate its separate list implementation, and because C's type system is nominal, the generated types will be isomorphic but incompatible. Contrast this with C++ templates, where two independent libraries can happily share std::list<int> values.

Zero-sized arrays are not standard. Accessing an array out of bounds is UB. At the very least, you should use a flexible array member instead (char payload[];).

But even if you did that, strict aliasing implies that 'payload' can only be accessed as an array of character type. It is correct to memcpy between 'payload' and another object of arbitrary type T of the appropriate size (as list_push_ does in your example), but it is UB to access 'payload' in place as a T (as main does, by casting to struct point * and dereferencing). Oh, and 'payload' may not satisfy the alignment requirement of T.

There is no realistic strict-aliasing-abiding way around a distinct node type per payload type.

The go a bit further than the article on the advantages of intrusive data structures, taking linked lists as an example:

As the article mentions, intrusive data structures naturally lead to one fewer indirection. To do the same with a traditional list (where the list node owns the payload), a different node type is needed for each payload type. This is easy to do with the proper support for monomorphized generics, see C++'s std::list. It is awkward in C, where the implementation has to be macro-generated. C naturally pushes towards an indirection through void *, which makes intrusive lists more attractive.

One other advantage of intrusive data structures is the ability to link a payload into several parallel collections without indirections (where traditional collections would require e.g. one collection owning the payloads, and the other collections merely holding non-owning pointers to them).

Las but not least, the defining property of intrusive data structures is that they leave the responsibility of allocating the elements to the user. The elements can be allocated on the heap, on the stack, in a global array (like "initholes" in the article), in a special arena, etc. It is even reasonable to use non-uniform allocation strategies; for example, for a circular list, allocate an anchor node on the stack and the other nodes (those embedded in payloads) on the heap.

> a single proof covering the most precise description of the program's behavior is more compact

Yes, and a program is most compact when all modules have been merged, and all functions with a single caller inlined. We have compilers with LTO for that, though; we would never maintain source code in that form.

Snark aside, I get your point about restating the program code, but this can be alleviated by interactive proof assistants that largely reduce the length of proof scripts. This is mostly a matter of tooling.

In my view, a major selling point of dependent types when it comes to reasoning, is that by bundling logical properties with a runtime value, they require no separate effort to prove the propagation of the logical properties as the value is moved around. That is why I mentioned them in the context of opaque types. This is especially useful with generics: when a type parameter is instantiated with a dependent type, all its occurrences instantly benefit from the strong typing.

They can also be used to enforce just enough constraints on the inputs of a function to make it total, but this comes down to the tradeoff between either leaving an error path in the program and proving its unreachability later, or not having this error path but immediately requiring the proof. In any case, as you mention, further properties can be proved later without altering the dependent type.

I do not intend to come off as overly negative about dependent types. They have their uses, but they can also bring a maintenance nightmare.