disown
Joined 6 years ago
Joined 6 years ago
There are plenty of free speech absolutists who believe any speech, including direct threats, should be protected speech. That you should have the right to threaten anyone and everyone. Of course, acting out and carrying out the threats is illegal.
For example, if you said "I am going to kill you", free speech absolutist believe that should be allowed. Now if you actually killed someone, then you should go to jail. Meaning there differentiate the words "I am going to kill you" with "murder". In other words, murder is illegal, but saying you will commit murder is not. There is some nuance to it, but there are free speech absolutists out there.
But you are not a free speech absolutist. You lied about it. You aren't even pro-free speech. You comments clearly show that you align with the pro-censorship crowd because you use their terms and their logic.
Like I said, you are a meat eater pretending to be a vegan talking shit about veganism. But why?
No you are not. Why lie? A free speech absolutist means that you believe any speech is acceptable. You comments clearly show you believe in limits to speech.
> but violent speech, "fighting words," insurrectionist speech, etc. are not protected under any free speech doctrine
"Insurrectionist speech". You just gave yourself away. It's not "free speech doctrine" that prevents it. It's a supreme court ruling. The US was mostly free speech absolutist until the courts ruled direct threats to be illegal.
In case you think america limited free speech before the 20th century...
Politicians could threaten each other and duel each other...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr%E2%80%93Hamilton_duel
> I've argued in favor of free speech here on HN (and got the downvotes to prove it) more times than I can
As someone who has been downvoted defending free speech, I commiserate. But you don't strike me as a free speech guy. You have the strangest way of being "in favor of free speech".
> Free speech isn't some carte blanche that allows anyone to say anything at any time.
But you just claimed to be a free speech absolutist. That's exactly what a free speech absolutist believe. That you can say anything anytime.
> This has nothing to do with free speech, and Gab is an absolute cesspool of delusional QAnon conspiracies.
But you are a free speech absolutist. No?
Why do propagandists always do this? They pretend to be the other side and argue against the other side. It's like a meat eater pretending to be vegan and saying bad things about the vegan diet. And you have the gall to accuse gab of being disingenuous.
They didn't. They chickened out. The ACLU was more vocal in its opposition to censorship. That should show how cowardly the EFF is being right now.
You falsely made it seem like EFF only deals with or is concerned with government "suppression". That isn't true. Most of EFF dealings is with corporate "suppression".
Under normal circumstances, EFF would have been far more vocal. But since they are extremely biased in this case, they chose to be anti-free speech.
"The EFF was active in the United States presidential election 2016 because of online phishing related to the controversy over fabrication of election results. J. Alex Halderman, a computer security professor at the University of Michigan, wrote an article that was published in Medium in 2016 stating he thought it was advisable to have a recount on some of the election results from states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Frontier_Foundation
Don't you think EFF's belief in 2016 election fraud had anything to do with their lukewarm defense of Trump's free speech here?
They have a long history of questioning voting results, but only when republicans win...
"The EFF has long been an advocate of paper audit trails for voting machines and testified in support of them after the United States presidential election 2004."
I generally think EFF is a worthy enterprise, but it's obvious political bias is the reason for their pathetic "support" for free speech here.
Are you the guy that keeps spamming blogs about "TSMC, chips and how taiwan is so important to the US" to HN?
> Furthermore, the Taiwanese people deserve the right to self-determination
Taiwan has 20 million people. Mainland china has 1.4 billion people. I believe the "self-determination" part is already settled.
> and our support if they decide to go their own way.
Nope. Let them settle it. We shouldn't have been involved in the first place.
> it's always been odd to me that the U.S. chooses to placate Beijing, at the risk of losing a reliable partner (Taiwan) in a strategic industry.
Are you serious? One is the second largest economy in the world. The other is taiwan.
Every week, there is some bullshit blog spam about how important TSMC is. Why is that? Who is paying for it?
There is the other side.
"Russian Woman, Who Claims to Be World's Oldest at 129, Says She's Had One Happy Day in her Life"
https://www.newsweek.com/russian-woman-claims-worlds-oldest-...
Also, there was a documentary a while back on nursing homes. Pretty much all "people who've survived longer" were miserable. I remember an old woman who out-lived her husband, daughter, friends, etc. I still remember what she said: "Everynight I go to sleep hoping god would take me, but I always wake up." A modern day Sibyl of Cumae.
I don't think "quick to smile" has anything to do with longevity. Misers and misanthropes also can outlive many.
It's good for surface level stuff. The apolitical superficial knowledge is where wikipedia excels.
> I find it frustrating when friends say it's unreliable/not to be trusted.
In terms of depth and breadth of knowledge of topics, it is sorely lacking. And it is highly untrustworthy when it comes to anything remotely political/historical/economic/etc - which are ultimately all political.
> Of course it's not perfect, but I've learned plenty enough from it to be well worth the trade-off
Definitely. It has it's uses like everything. But it is extremely flawed.
It is not for a bunch of unelected tech elites to decide whether our elected leaders speak. That's not their job. Once we hand over that power to a bunch of tech elites, then we have the end of the republic.
Nobody voted for Amazon, Apple, Google to be our hall monitors.
If there is a "threat to the republic", then it's the job of the political leaders and law enforcement to deal with it. Not Tim Cook, not Zuckerburg and certainly not the idiots at CNN, foxnews or other media companies.
The collusion between tech and news industry is the greatest threat to the republic. Not some pathetic protest that amounted to nothing.
Have you ever bothered to ask who elected the tech industry to be our masters? Do you really want a bunch of unelected tech elite controlling our lives? Do you want these people to be lords over our elected leaders?
And yet the media, academics, politicians, etc all bring up over and over. I wonder why?
> However there are tons and tons of evidence that foreign powers like Russia and China troll and spread millions of fake stories to fool more gullible Americans
Tons? Where?
> I don't recall a single democrat saying "the dominion voting machines are fake data!"
Other than warren, klobucharm, wyden, etc?
https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobu...
Warren even wanted to get rid of voting machine to make our election secure.
https://time.com/5613673/warren-election-security/
Also, as I noted, issues with voting machines were mostly a democratic concern in the 2000s due to the Bush victories. Voting machine problem isn't a new issue. It's been around for decades.
Actually I described you to the tee.
> I certainly am not advocating that social media companies should have even more control over our lives
So you are against censorship or for it?
> Since (a) is unlikely in the near term, that probably means (b). I don't how Twitter banning anyone (including POTUS) from their platform does anything but encourage that.
Except that if tech companies collude together to prevent that. Fine, you say go make your own twitter. They do and then it gets banned from google play/apple store/etc. And down the line it goes. That's my point.
> I also don't see how "large corporations that have used psychological manipulation and network effects to become really popular must be consider public utilities, despite no law to that effect" really lines up with free speech.
Who or what are you quoting? You just plucked a quote out of the ether. That's very dishonest and disingenuous. You almost write like a journalist.
> Do you believe that the NY Times should be required to print my op-ed's in their online version?
Of course not. But then again, they are not a platform, they are publishers. But you already knew that.
What was wrong with my tone?
> You should inform yourself.
I did and I am.
"Wolfpacks are established according to a strict hierarchy, with a dominant male at the top and his mate not far behind."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/g/gray-wo...
> I gave you the name of the author to read, Mech, in my previous post.
I'm not going to read a book for this. That's so silly. If you are the one making an outrageous claim, cite the claims yourself. It's like you claiming that the earth is flat and then demanding I read some book to "inform" myself.
> Some youngs situationaly fight other youngs but you can't establish a ranking of individual in a wild pack.
Actually, the fighting is establishing a rank.
> That wouldn't make much sense.
Of course it makes sense. Just because you say it doesn't make sense don't make it true.
> Human families don't have hierarchy.
Yes we do. Parents at top and then kids ( pretty much by age ). Ever heard of patriarchy/matriarchy?
> Young children are subordinate to their parents until they come of age
Oh so there is a hierarchy?
> I am starting to understand your confusion.
I don't have any confusion. You are confused. You say there is no hierarchy and then use words describing a hierarchy.
Also, really puts a dent into the anti-free speech argument that "you can go to another platform" argument.
I do love watching all these "tech/social media is evil" crowd here suddenly praising tech/social media and wanting them to have even more control over our lives.
Social media is so evil that we need them to control our lives even more. Wonderful logic that.
Seems like whatever battle Trump and his faction was waging behind the scenes the last 4 years failed and he simply failed to win over enough power/influence to his side. We'll never know what really happened, we can just guess.
But feels like history is happening. I don't think any of us have lived to through anything like this. I know I certainly haven't.