bartminton

Really? Which are those countries? If you never pay into public pension, how can you get a pension then?

Thank you. All that and more.

> This post sounds like it’s satirizing miserable privileged tech workers.

It's more someone working since the age of 16. Working hard for an average or more than 13 hours a day for nearly 30 years straight. Earning above average is IMO totally justified, but I accept your opinion.

> You get child care for free in Germany.

Ha! Try to find a KiTa in Berlin. Even if the law says so, it does not mean there's enough supply!

> Tax is high but Berlin is still the cheapest big western city there is

It once was. If you belong to those who were forced to move into the suburbs with all the associated cost, your point of view would be quite different.

> It’s also beautiful and diverse.

I think we can agree to disagree. As someone born and raised here I've never seen the city in a situation worse than today.

> I earn less than you and get by fine, also know many couples the same.

Congrats. Do you or your friends have to make up for their own pension yourselfes?

> Yeah it’s changed over 30 years - name a place that didn’t.

Change is good. It's the only constant. Unfortunately it changed to the worst. But you can only see that, if you know, how it's been before.

Thanks for your thoughts anyways.

As a selfemployed I do not get any pension at all. That's the point. I'd be in for a tax based pension system and I'd happily pay for it. Unfortunately public pension is prohibitively expensive and a pretty bad investment. You're better off investing your savings yourself. So there's no point in waiting for me.

I think, yes, that's what is meant.

Thanks for taking the time and putting all those points together. I see the con's and I am sure, that's nothing what we're especially looking forward to. But especially the pro's got totally eroded over here. At least from my point of view. There is hardly any reasonable equality, the social divide is IMO mostly based on that. Low crime and violence ... once was. We live in one of the "better" parts of Berlin, nevertheless I fear the day, we have to send our son to a public school. Education was good, became worse but is not catastrophic yet. Getting a university degree is (nearly) free and that's fine. Still, the level of real education in public schools beforehand is getting worse and worse. Social safety net does not exist for me being self employed but the "last resort" Hartz4. I still agree on sensible regulations and the med system.

I might paint a too dark picture, but that's what I've experienced in the last 20 years, and those things are the drivers behind our plans to leave the country. However, your points are a great source of information for everyone who might consider leaving the country. Thanks a lot.

Hawaii is on our list as well. Unfortunately it's very hard to get a working visa for both of us. Otherwise it would be a great option.

We strongly consider New Zealand. Reasons are manyfold, but what from we know from friends living there, it's close to European life style but with an intact nature and mostly mild weather.

That's my thinking. What we witnessed over the last 30 years are more and more local maxima and extremes in regions, which typically have very mild weather. I spent significant amounts of time in a number of countries near the equator and do not recall such changes as we currently witness in Europe. But given the fact, that I have absolutely no expertise in the field, I might be totally wrong.

I lived on the Canarias for 3 years way back in the 90s. Loved it, but I guess it is totally different today. Nevertheless, especially Gran Canaria is on top of our list right now. It's still Europe, moving there is super easy. Weather is fine. International school should be there and a flight to Germany is a little more than 4 hours. So far sounds like an option.

> and realise that the plans you may not agree with your government only add up to 1%

I wish, I could afford your optimism. :) IMHO Germany is getting deconstructed rapidly, and if one of the leading European countries suffers the breakdown I expect, I see nothing but dark clouds on the European sky. Europe and especially Germany as part of the free, western world need to be leaders trying to solve the ecological and economical challenges ahead of us. But when you want to solve such a huge number of problems, it's not wise to burn down your whole country beforehand.

I guess, many people share our current point of view, and yes, it's not only the german society which is affected. From a german perspective looking at the US or UK makes me feel very sorry. The leading countries of the free world seem to be on a decline, and that makes me very sad. However, the situation I describe, is only what I personally perceive. It's in no way objective, so Germany might still be in a "good shape" seen from whatever angle. It's just that we're looking for a better place to live, but did neither consider the US nor the UK for above reasons. Dank und Grüße

I admit, I like your point of view very much. If you are not already, you'd make up for a very good leader. In the end we did not yet make a decision to leave. We're juggling different ideas and that thread here opened up a new pathes to think through. The unknown unknowns so to say.

Thank you.

:+1

Totally with you regarding all points you made. I believe in a horrible recession not only in Germany but also Europe lasting for longer than just 2 or 3 years. I also do believe, that the totally overheated housing market will crash very badly, which might open up interesting opportunities, once it happened. Still, all the other problems remained. However, thanks for your thoughts.