World177
Joined 4 years ago
Joined 4 years ago
> 3m $60k double your daily active users
[1] https://web.archive.org/web/19991114130555/http://x.com/mana...
[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20230401142845/http://x.com/
So, it sounds like you're thinking something more like [1]
> I mean, i dont think "elon musk endorses this statement as true" is something that wikipedia would want. Elon musk is not a good source for what is true about elon musk (not picking on musk specificly. Most people have motivation to not be fully truthful about themselves).
I think it's useful information, but, that it basically already exists. I think there are times when it becomes really interesting, like organizational endorsements and repudations, but I just don't see endorsements and repudations being that interesting. Another idea I've seen suggested in the past is requiring users to provide a small deposit, which can be seized if it's shown they're intentionally acting malicious.
> You need to bind identities to wallets anyways, why not just skip the middle man and have people make endorsemdnts directly?
This actually has been done really well. Ethereum Name Service now has over 2,500,000 registered domains. [2] It's as easy to remember someone's address as it is their email address or social media handle. (And they can be contractually controlled, so an organization or DAO can create transactions with them or create complicated implementations that determine how they should resolve)
While this prototype did not consider much, most applications on Ethereum do provide high levels of interoperability. An organization (or DAO) could write their own implementation for how their domain uses the endorse function on a contract, then have their members endorse information, which results in the organization endorsement (ex. endorsed by who.int) showing up when requirements are met, etc. A high profile person, like Elon Musk, could also sign stuff to have his signature show up on a reference. (ex. ElonMusk.eth endorses this reference as accurately representing the truth)
I think with this specific use case, the purpose is not as clear because endorsements on social media are already trusted by users. For users, even if this was correctly decentralized through a blockchain domain, it still would likely require developer interpretation for them to understand if the decentralized service is operating as expected.
In [3], the getArticle is called which shows the article text has not yet been set. Then, in [4] I'm showing that by calling a method on the contract, the text of the article can be set by someone using the contract. In [5] I show that this previous edit changed the text of the article. In [6] I'm showing that different signers of transactions can also be displayed as an editor. And finally, in [7], I'm showing the an item in the edit history can be looked up by index.
If what is stored on the blockchain does not match what Wikipedia is showing, then Wikipedia is censoring what is supposed to be in the article. This isn't showing endorsements, but, endorsements could easily be added to this contract by creating a mapping on the contract for users that want to endorse edits at an index, etc.
This is not state everything should be on a blockchain, but just demonstrate that it is possible to create censorship resistant article edit tracking that has endorsing users.
[1] https://pastebin.mozilla.org/5zu9mDrg/raw
[2] https://remix.ethereum.org
[3] https://i.imgur.com/osPMT57.png
[4] https://i.imgur.com/mq9oRJ9.png
[5] https://i.imgur.com/oXghJhn.png
If they really wanted, they could prove they made edits on a chain. Using Ethereum directly is expensive, but the layer 2 chains that finalize on Ethereum are not expensive. The EVM can handle and store the results of any computation given that it is small enough for the block and has enough gas to pay for it. The fees on some layer 2 chains are very low. [1]
I don't really know if it necessary to prove someone did not make an edit though.
[1] https://u.today/polygon-zkevm-proving-costs-estimated-by-co-...
Note: I'm not sure that Polygon's zkEVM supports all op codes. Though, there are other chains like Arbitrum Nova where the EVM is fully supported, and the fees are less than $0.01/transaction. (for now at least) Polygon's zkEVM provides better security guarantees though. You can see the total value locked for different chains here, [2] which should be partially indicative of how much the markets trust them.
I wasn't really paying attention to the implementation, but just what is easily possible. It would be simple to sign the full edit and provide that to other people without ever storing it on chain. It's also possible to create a contract that serves for domains of an organization to sign messages, etc.
> This whole thing is seriously stupid. It is a non-solution to a non-problem. The problem they are trying to solve doesn't exist and even if it did this wouldn't fix it.
I think this a valid. I actually do think blockchains solve identity well through domains, though, with endorsements, there's already seemingly good trust to the accuracy of identity on social media platforms. As an example, there's not usually a question to whether Elon Musk was the person who made a Tweet endorsing something as true.
> I mean hell, at the very least you think they would sign a hash of the edit instead of just an id number.
With most blockchain based stuff, it seems like projects are frequently made without much consideration.
People using Ethereum often also use blockchain based domains which makes it easier for non-technical people to be more certain about endorsements. Ethereum leaves the implementation of how something becomes endorsed by a domain up to the owner(s) of a domain.
> Why do you need to involve a blockchain and I assume transaction fees as well?
This is more dependent on implementation. Just endorsing something does not need to be on chain, so there does not need to be fees.
I think you're right in that it's so far not been necessary to use blockchain based identities. Though, I think blockchain based identities are objectively better. In implementation, it doesn't have to be a random person, it could be anyone or any organization that could endorse changes.
> I'm not sure how a wholly external PKI could be any help in "endorsing" edits. A user's ETH wallet has no relation to their reputation or trustworthiness on WMF sites.
Ethereum based identities are easy to remember and harder to censor. If Wikipedia wants to censor someone currently, they can just remove the system they have implemented. The solution offered provides an external system that provides a way to determine if someone did something even if Wikipedia tries to hide it later. (with the certainty that also backs billions of dollars in value on Ethereum)
The old system also provided a way for domains to be seized, which would be the equivalent of an identity being revoked. This can't happen with blockchain based identities, so it provides more certainty. Blockchain based domains are tie human rememberable names to identities well. Which while GPG is associated with email addresses, the association seems more difficult to fake, and provides non-technical people certainty of identity in a similar way to how they would normally trust a website.
At times, they might be wrong, but they’re going to realize they’re a problem if they’re always wrong. I do think sometimes incentives seem misaligned, like, I was in an enterprise linux related community, where their income is related to providing support to enterprise customers. In that scenario, it seemed like someone answering questions for free could be problematic to their business.
I don’t know, I don’t think it’s an issue, but I’ve noticed it does seem strange being that person.