Scandiravian

Denmark

Yet no insurance company will provide me with health insurance because I've taken ADHD medication within the last five years

If I stop taking my meds and let my mental health deteriorate for five years, they apparently think I'm less likely to be a net expense for them

Perhaps, but that would by all accounts still be a pretty silly thing to do. It's not like another group of people with a different cultural background invaded France and displaced/killed everyone already living there

A person with a French citizenship from the fourth republic was still a French citizen when the fifth republic was established

Perhaps, they were certainly foundational in establishing traditions that are now part of American culture, but even 1600 is young compared to many, if not most, European countries

The Franks made Paris their capital in the 5th century, so that still ~1100 years earlier

The Germanic people exists in records from the 1st century

Whether you can consider Spain as originating from Hispania of the Roman Empire, which would place it in the BCs, or you are more conservative and say that it doesn't count until after the reconquista from the Umayyad, we're still around the 10th or 11th century

As for Italy, we're again in BCs with the Roman empire

So yes, in comparison to many European countries, the US is a very young country

How in the world can you claim that France is not even 100? The German empire was established in 1857, which is definitely more than 100 years ago; it's also not unreasonable to say that the HRE could be equated to the German state, that Spain is the continuation of Castille, and that the Roman empire can be considered the direct precursor to Italy

There's a cultural through line for all these countries, often stretching back thousands of years, which means that they reach further back than the definition of the modern state

I don't, but your argument as presented is that the concerns expressed by myself and others with asd-1 are irrelevant because a "cure" could help people with asd-3

Since people with asd-3 can't speak for themselves, others are allowed to speak for them and as a result everyone is essentially allowed to ignore the concerns of people with asd-1 as long as they hide behind representing asd-3

I've argued for asd-3 throughout, so if you respond with a disagreement, the only part you're essentially disagreeing with is my expression of concern about how it will impact asd-1. Pitting me as opposed to treatment of asd-3 is a complete and utter strawman

So your evidence for people doing bad faith is your own bad faith description of your supposed antagonisers, which again doesn't engage with any of the actual arguments brought up in counter to your position?

It's great that you believe that asd-1 should not be fixed. Plenty of people do think we need fixing and this "cure" would be the tool they'd need for that

If this does not at the minimum give pause to consider how societies historically have acted towards people who have not conformed, then I don't think you actually understand the discrimination most people with asd-1 face on a daily basis

You can argue all you want that it's good for people with asd-3. I have agreed with that at every step. Using it to silence genuine concerns from people with asd-1 is kind of proving my point, that our concerns will not be listened to and we could end in a situation where people are pressured to treatment through negative social control

Well, people tend to get pissy, when you completely disregard their lived experiences and concerns

You've shown little to no interest in actually understanding why myself and others have expressed concerns what a "cure" would mean for those of us with a diagnosis, including a complete disregard for the historical precedent of how people with perceived "mental disabilities" have been treated

You've run out of patience because your stance has been that we're wrong and you're right, so you need to set us straight. That's generally not a path to a fruitful conversation

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that your son is struggling. I cannot comprehend how difficult and stressful that must be for you as a parent

I can however speak to what it's like being autistic and what would have helped me growing up - and it's wasn't medicine

I had my share of meltdowns and they were pretty much exclusively caused by being forced to fit into a rigid school system where my "weirdness" was punished by both teachers and my classmates

What I needed was teachers who had been educated in supporting neurodivergent children, a safe space where I could have gone when I needed to decompress, an academic schedule that was geared towards my needs, and counselling to help me navigate a society that is designed by and for neurotypical people

That my brain is wired differently than it is in a neurotypical person is not a medical condition

What enrages me is when I'm treated as if I'm somehow broken and need fixing. I'm sick and tired of being discriminated against and I'm even more tired of people arguing that it's somehow a super power

My needs and preferences might be different from other people, but I'm still just a person and that's what I'd like to be treated as

Whether something is classified as a disorder is imho irrelevant. In the US homosexuality was classified as a disorder until 1973. As I've said repeatedly, society has the mental disorders it creates

In a society where the nuclear family is seen as the highest ideal and the natural state of being, anyone who is not cis and straight will be seen as someone that needs to be changed, which is why homosexuality was considered a disorder

When you have a society where capital is king and a lot of people genuinely believe that your personal productivity is a measure of your worth, anyone who do not function in the resulting "hussle-culture" will be seen as someone that will need to be changed

Yes, being autistic and homosexual are two completely different things, but treating a social construct, such as a disorder classification as natural law is just as idiotic now as it was in 1970

Whether or not people with ASD-1 are more capable of advocating for themselves is completely irrelevant if our concerns can be dismissed outright by anyone claiming to speak for ASD-3

It shows a complete disregard for the discrimination that is already occurring today which affects every verbal autistic person I know, myself included

It's a way to essentially refuse to deal with considerations such as how many people with an ASD-1 diagnosis should we as a society accept being treated, not because they actually want the treatment for themselves, but because they're subjected to social control

For the majority of autistic people (ASD-1), their issues are also solely caused by those around them

As I said in my original post that spawned this thread (and I think in one or two other posts as well), people who are ASD-3 is a case where I would hope we could get better treatment options, but I'm worried about the implications such a "cure" would have for the ASD-1 part of the population

My question about whether we should cure homosexuality is naturally preposterous, exactly because the issues they face are exclusively caused by their surroundings

When the poster I responded cited a high suicide rate among autistic people as support for why a "cure" should be pursued as well as equating it to other "disorders/diseases/illness" in general, I wanted to highlight the absurdity of such a line of reasoning

My main point is that shit is complicated. There are people who need and deserve better treatment options, but ignoring how people who have not conformed to societal expectations have been treated throughout history (and in many cases continues to be treated) is foolish and dangerous

Correction: people with an autism diagnosis. You are much more likely to get a diagnosis if you are in contact with the psychiatric healthcare system (e.g. if you are suicidal)

Any statistics done on the subset of autistic people with a diagnosis would therefore be skewed towards the mean of the subset of the general population who are in contact with the psychiatric system

There's a huge number of undiagnosed - estimates range between 90%-98% of people who would fit the criteria for ASD remain undiagnosed. These people remain undiagnosed because they generally live normal lives with jobs, wives, husbands, children, pets, and so on, which provides a support system to help them with the challenges they face

The group of undiagnosed autistic people are however much more likely to be underemployed, i.e. they employed in a much lower position than their education and experience would generally suggest. This is due to the systemic issues they face caused by a lack of accommodations which naturally increases the risk of them having a mental health crisis that puts them in contact with the psychiatric system

Something, something, kettle, something, something, pot

I think this is an "correlation does not mean causation" situation

Is the rate of suicide higher among autistic people because they are autistic or because they face discrimination due to the way we've structured society?

One of the reasons why we've seen a large increase in people getting diagnosed with autism in recent years is that society, work environments especially, have become much more demanding. Someone who, 30 years ago, would have been able to function at a high level at home and at work would like struggle much more today

This is not the only reason for the increase in diagnoses, but it's definitely a part of it

The question is then; are these increased demands an inevitability, a law of nature if you will, or is it something we can choose to change?

This is what I mean when I say that society get the mental disorders it creates

There is also a significant higher rate of suicide for the homosexual part of the population compared to the heterosexual part, so again I have to ask: should we "cure" homosexuality?

I have said throughout the thread that I'm conflicted about a "cure". I do believe it could help some people immensely, but for many more people what would help more is a kinder and more compassionate society, where the default assumption isn't that if autistic people don't want to burn out, then they're the ones who'll have to be "fixed"