Fruitfulness of discussion might be aided by bearing in mind that US and European copyright law traditionally come from very different perspectives. Basically, societal utilitarianism vs work-is-an-inalienable-part-of-the-artist author's natural rights. "Copyright should last 5 years because starving keeps artists productive. And copyright owners have no say at all in their works being used for LLM training because it's good for society" is consistent with US foundations, at least pre-Berne. "Authors are not permitted to give up their right to personally refuse a use of their already-sold work, nor to give anticipatory permission for use in future technology" is IIUC unremarkable in a European context. An AI suggests[1] as philosophical background. People are coming at this from vastly different places. Bearing that in mind might help avoid talking past one another. IIUC.
I also note, when the internet was just catching on, and email was becoming less niche, but copyright law had not yet established sending email as an implicit grant of permission to make copies, most all use of email violated copyright. Network->disk->memory - all copies without permission. I'd get email with footers vaguely like "You are hereby granted permission to <do email> for the purposes of XYZ Corp - all other use constitutes infringement". There was a multi-year lag between accepted practice and legality. IIUC, forwarding email is still problematic today. Having lived through that, "Arg! <New tech> violates copyright!" gets less traction with me. And with copyright term extensions, and Berne on the US side, having a taint of unprincipled corruption, that also makes it less compelling.
I also note, when the internet was just catching on, and email was becoming less niche, but copyright law had not yet established sending email as an implicit grant of permission to make copies, most all use of email violated copyright. Network->disk->memory - all copies without permission. I'd get email with footers vaguely like "You are hereby granted permission to <do email> for the purposes of XYZ Corp - all other use constitutes infringement". There was a multi-year lag between accepted practice and legality. IIUC, forwarding email is still problematic today. Having lived through that, "Arg! <New tech> violates copyright!" gets less traction with me. And with copyright term extensions, and Berne on the US side, having a taint of unprincipled corruption, that also makes it less compelling.
[1] https://cyber.harvard.edu/people/tfisher/iptheory.pdf