Reminds me a bit of the fish anecdote told by DFW... they've only swam in water their entire life, so they don't even understand what water is.
Here are the mixed paradigms/styles in these Python snippets:
- Statements vs. expressions
- Eager list comprehensions vs. lazy generator expressions
- Mutable vs. immutable data structures / imperative reference vs. functional semantics
(note that the Raku version only picks _one_ side of those)
> seq.extend(sum(seq[-2:]) for _ in range(18))
I mean, this is the worst Python code yet. To explain what this does to a beginner, or even intermediate programmer.... oooooh boy.
You have the hidden inner iteration loop inside the `.extend` standard library method driving the lazy generator expression with _unspecified_ one-step-at-a-time semantics, which causes `seq[-2:]` to be evaluated at exactly the right time, and then `seq` is extended even _before_ the `.extend` finishes (which is very surprising!), causing the next generator iteration to read a _partially_ updated `seq`...
This is almost all the footguns of standard imperative programming condensed into a single expression. Like ~half of the "programming"-type bugs I see in code reviews are related to tricky temporal (execution order) logic, combined with mutability, that depend on unclearly specified semantics.
> It's about twisty stupid special symbol meanings.
Some people program in APL/J/K/Q just fine, and they prefer their symbols. Calling it "stupid" is showing your prejudice. (I don't and can't write APL but still respect it)
> What's not fine is to make up bogus comparisons and bogus implications about the people who don't like it.
That's a quite irrational take. I didn't make any bogus comparisons. I justified or can justify all my points. I did not imply anything about people who don't like Raku. I don't even use Raku myself...
Here are the mixed paradigms/styles in these Python snippets:
- Statements vs. expressions
- Eager list comprehensions vs. lazy generator expressions
- Mutable vs. immutable data structures / imperative reference vs. functional semantics
(note that the Raku version only picks _one_ side of those)
> seq.extend(sum(seq[-2:]) for _ in range(18))
I mean, this is the worst Python code yet. To explain what this does to a beginner, or even intermediate programmer.... oooooh boy.
You have the hidden inner iteration loop inside the `.extend` standard library method driving the lazy generator expression with _unspecified_ one-step-at-a-time semantics, which causes `seq[-2:]` to be evaluated at exactly the right time, and then `seq` is extended even _before_ the `.extend` finishes (which is very surprising!), causing the next generator iteration to read a _partially_ updated `seq`...
This is almost all the footguns of standard imperative programming condensed into a single expression. Like ~half of the "programming"-type bugs I see in code reviews are related to tricky temporal (execution order) logic, combined with mutability, that depend on unclearly specified semantics.
> It's about twisty stupid special symbol meanings.
Some people program in APL/J/K/Q just fine, and they prefer their symbols. Calling it "stupid" is showing your prejudice. (I don't and can't write APL but still respect it)
> What's not fine is to make up bogus comparisons and bogus implications about the people who don't like it.
That's a quite irrational take. I didn't make any bogus comparisons. I justified or can justify all my points. I did not imply anything about people who don't like Raku. I don't even use Raku myself...