The thing you're missing here is that these two statements are not contradictory:
-- CS grads are, on average, better programmers than non-CS-grads.
-- The average CS grad is not a very good programmer.
My company does a standardized interview with a straightforward coding problem that is only a few steps above fizzbuzz level. In just the past few weeks, we've had candidates who:
-- Had to look up basic syntax (defining a function) in the language they chose.
-- Duplicated a reference a few minutes in and could not figure out the problem in the remaining twenty minutes.
-- Couldn't extract the 2nd element of an array of five elements.
These same candidates, on other portions of the interview:
-- Knew nothing about common data structures (something that at the very least a CS degree should help with)
-- Couldn't handle an intermediate SQL query fix involving a simple normalized schema
-- Couldn't tell you anything about internals or security, and
-- Didn't seem able to describe how they'd build a CRUD app.
All of these candidates had CS degrees from respectable-to-good universities.
Anecdotes are not data, but high-level data says the same thing. Our coding problem is very similar to the practice problem shown at [1] (though slightly harder). It doesn't require any tricky lateral thinking, deep language features, esoteric algorithms, dynamic programming, weird race conditions, or any of the other usual trivia BS - it's as straightforward a task as we could design.
And if you look at how much progress people make (see [2]), it's not much. The vast majority of people we interview have CS degrees, and two-thirds of them still get ~nowhere.
Meanwhile, the best interview we've done this month was with a guy who has been the sole developer for an ag business in rural Arkansas for the past decade. He has no degree and his previous two jobs were a sandwich shop and running a website for his church.
(Specific details slightly fudged for the sake of candidate anonymity, but not in a way that materially affects the point.)
[1] https://www.otherbranch.com/shared/practice-coding-problem
[2] https://ibb.co/CpznhK8m
-- CS grads are, on average, better programmers than non-CS-grads.
-- The average CS grad is not a very good programmer.
My company does a standardized interview with a straightforward coding problem that is only a few steps above fizzbuzz level. In just the past few weeks, we've had candidates who:
-- Had to look up basic syntax (defining a function) in the language they chose.
-- Duplicated a reference a few minutes in and could not figure out the problem in the remaining twenty minutes.
-- Couldn't extract the 2nd element of an array of five elements.
These same candidates, on other portions of the interview:
-- Knew nothing about common data structures (something that at the very least a CS degree should help with)
-- Couldn't handle an intermediate SQL query fix involving a simple normalized schema
-- Couldn't tell you anything about internals or security, and
-- Didn't seem able to describe how they'd build a CRUD app.
All of these candidates had CS degrees from respectable-to-good universities.
Anecdotes are not data, but high-level data says the same thing. Our coding problem is very similar to the practice problem shown at [1] (though slightly harder). It doesn't require any tricky lateral thinking, deep language features, esoteric algorithms, dynamic programming, weird race conditions, or any of the other usual trivia BS - it's as straightforward a task as we could design.
And if you look at how much progress people make (see [2]), it's not much. The vast majority of people we interview have CS degrees, and two-thirds of them still get ~nowhere.
Meanwhile, the best interview we've done this month was with a guy who has been the sole developer for an ag business in rural Arkansas for the past decade. He has no degree and his previous two jobs were a sandwich shop and running a website for his church.
(Specific details slightly fudged for the sake of candidate anonymity, but not in a way that materially affects the point.)
[1] https://www.otherbranch.com/shared/practice-coding-problem
[2] https://ibb.co/CpznhK8m