>> The thought experiment was scientific evidence?
> Well, I guess you could even look at it that way (it is a question about thought that we are trying to answer, after all), but I'd tend to think that that is a category error, strictly speaking, in that we are dealing with a formal (language) system, so it's more on the proof side of things. Unless you consider it a question of finding agreement about definitions, in which case that thought experiment is simply an exercise in (empirically) determining the definition that you are using.
Let me see if I can show you what I am getting at (looking for yes/no answers but I'm not going to stop you from digging deeper, lol): Are all claims about reality scientifically testable?
> I don't see any reason to think that representation is optional.
Can't something be true regardless of whether or not it's being represented?
> Every instance of Peano axioms that I can think of has a physical representation, just as every instance of cake that I can think of has physical representation.
Wouldn't that be because you can't think of those things without a representation, not because they are dependent upon a representation?
> Making the assumption that there is such a thing as immaterial Peano axioms seems to me as reasonable as making the assumption that there is such a thing as immaterial cake.
So what material(s) are the Peano axioms composed of?
> ... some people think that things that exist for a span of time that has no extent (like, 0 seconds) can be said to exist ...
Heh, yeah I don't even know what that means...
> In my book, that is a pretty useless definition...
Do you have any definition for "exist" that you consider useful?
>> That "the universe can change states" is known by observation.
> Then ... in which sense isn't that scientific observation demonstrating the existence of the potential for the universe to be in different states?!
Yes.
> I simply meant which reasons you would give to anyone who was interested, or possibly to humanity as a whole, to try and convince them to care about morality under that definition.
I'd probably say a reason for someone to care about morality would be if they cared to maximize joy/happiness in themselves and others.
> Well, I guess you could even look at it that way (it is a question about thought that we are trying to answer, after all), but I'd tend to think that that is a category error, strictly speaking, in that we are dealing with a formal (language) system, so it's more on the proof side of things. Unless you consider it a question of finding agreement about definitions, in which case that thought experiment is simply an exercise in (empirically) determining the definition that you are using.
Let me see if I can show you what I am getting at (looking for yes/no answers but I'm not going to stop you from digging deeper, lol): Are all claims about reality scientifically testable?
> I don't see any reason to think that representation is optional.
Can't something be true regardless of whether or not it's being represented?
> Every instance of Peano axioms that I can think of has a physical representation, just as every instance of cake that I can think of has physical representation.
Wouldn't that be because you can't think of those things without a representation, not because they are dependent upon a representation?
> Making the assumption that there is such a thing as immaterial Peano axioms seems to me as reasonable as making the assumption that there is such a thing as immaterial cake.
So what material(s) are the Peano axioms composed of?
> ... some people think that things that exist for a span of time that has no extent (like, 0 seconds) can be said to exist ...
Heh, yeah I don't even know what that means...
> In my book, that is a pretty useless definition...
Do you have any definition for "exist" that you consider useful?
>> That "the universe can change states" is known by observation.
> Then ... in which sense isn't that scientific observation demonstrating the existence of the potential for the universe to be in different states?!
Yes.
> I simply meant which reasons you would give to anyone who was interested, or possibly to humanity as a whole, to try and convince them to care about morality under that definition.
I'd probably say a reason for someone to care about morality would be if they cared to maximize joy/happiness in themselves and others.