> If "1 + 9 = 10" is true
But the point is that it isn't true. It is consistent with and implied by the Peano axioms, that's it. If you make the completely arbitrary assumption (as far as pure mathematics is concerned) that the Peano axioms are true (that is to say, you consider them to be axioms), then it follows that "1 + 9 = 10" is also true. If you reject the Peano axioms, then it's not true anymore. That is, until you accept some alternate axioms that also imply "1 + 9 = 10". Or you simply make "1 + 9 = 10" an axiom, then it's true simply because it's an axiom. The fact that the truth of that statement is completely dependent on your arbitrary choice of axioms should tell you that it's not a statement about reality.
> I'd agree that it's not a claim about PHYSICAL reality though.
So, can you demonstrate that there is a non-physical reality?
> Because not all religious claims are claims about physical reality, some are about moral reality
What is moral reality and how do you demonstrate that it exists (and is distinct from physical reality)?
> Just like "1 apple + 9 apples = 10 apples" is not a claim about physical reality, but is an application of mathematics to physical reality
Uh ... what? Did I maybe just not express myself clearly? Let me rephrase: When you have one apple in a basket, and you put another 9 apples into the same basket, you will have 10 apples in that basket. That is a statement about (physical) reality, wouldn't you agree? That's what I meant.
> "You must not steal" is not a claim about physical reality, but is an application of morals to persons in physical reality.
It's simply not a claim at all, and therefore it's just yet another category error? "Electrons must have a mass of 5 tons" is also not a claim about physical reality, because it's also not a claim. "Electrons do have a mass of 5 tons" is a claim, and it's also a claim about reality, and it's testable. And equally "having and enforcing a social norm of not stealing provides such and such benefits for human societies" is a claim, and it's also a claim about reality, and it's also testable.
The problem with your example is not that it's somehow about morals, the problem is that you simply didn't make a claim, but a command. And that is not because it is impossible to make claims about morals, but because you intentionally avoided making a claim.
> Moral claims are not testable by science. It would be a categorical error to try to discover the color, smell, taste, feel, or affect of morality.
So, you think it is a category error to try and discover the effects of moral norms, because it is impossible to observe the effects of moral norms, because moral norms don't affect (physical) reality?
> If you can perform direct or indirect physical observation to verify a religious claim, then it is a claim that science can deal with.
What would be an example of a religious claim that is "not scientific", other than claims about an afterlife?
But the point is that it isn't true. It is consistent with and implied by the Peano axioms, that's it. If you make the completely arbitrary assumption (as far as pure mathematics is concerned) that the Peano axioms are true (that is to say, you consider them to be axioms), then it follows that "1 + 9 = 10" is also true. If you reject the Peano axioms, then it's not true anymore. That is, until you accept some alternate axioms that also imply "1 + 9 = 10". Or you simply make "1 + 9 = 10" an axiom, then it's true simply because it's an axiom. The fact that the truth of that statement is completely dependent on your arbitrary choice of axioms should tell you that it's not a statement about reality.
> I'd agree that it's not a claim about PHYSICAL reality though.
So, can you demonstrate that there is a non-physical reality?
> Because not all religious claims are claims about physical reality, some are about moral reality
What is moral reality and how do you demonstrate that it exists (and is distinct from physical reality)?
> Just like "1 apple + 9 apples = 10 apples" is not a claim about physical reality, but is an application of mathematics to physical reality
Uh ... what? Did I maybe just not express myself clearly? Let me rephrase: When you have one apple in a basket, and you put another 9 apples into the same basket, you will have 10 apples in that basket. That is a statement about (physical) reality, wouldn't you agree? That's what I meant.
> "You must not steal" is not a claim about physical reality, but is an application of morals to persons in physical reality.
It's simply not a claim at all, and therefore it's just yet another category error? "Electrons must have a mass of 5 tons" is also not a claim about physical reality, because it's also not a claim. "Electrons do have a mass of 5 tons" is a claim, and it's also a claim about reality, and it's testable. And equally "having and enforcing a social norm of not stealing provides such and such benefits for human societies" is a claim, and it's also a claim about reality, and it's also testable.
The problem with your example is not that it's somehow about morals, the problem is that you simply didn't make a claim, but a command. And that is not because it is impossible to make claims about morals, but because you intentionally avoided making a claim.
> Moral claims are not testable by science. It would be a categorical error to try to discover the color, smell, taste, feel, or affect of morality.
So, you think it is a category error to try and discover the effects of moral norms, because it is impossible to observe the effects of moral norms, because moral norms don't affect (physical) reality?
> If you can perform direct or indirect physical observation to verify a religious claim, then it is a claim that science can deal with.
What would be an example of a religious claim that is "not scientific", other than claims about an afterlife?