Well, Java isn't verbose. Certain codebases have gotten verbose because they are being maintained for years (decades?) with extremely functional tools. Give a Go team IntelliJ and 20 years, and then we can compare Go and Java codebases.
> But I think it's a perfectly fair point that the language you can write effective in vi is -- all other things being equal -- better than the language that requires an IDE.
I would have to disagree with this point as well. To me, it feels like suggesting that computing is better with punch cards. Because, it is then also a fair point that a way of computing that can be done without a computer and editor is -- all other things being equal -- better than the way of computing that requires a computer and editor.
I think that thinking this way will also help numb the next leap in methods of instructing computers, and performing computation. Whether that involves a programming language or not.
> But I think it's a perfectly fair point that the language you can write effective in vi is -- all other things being equal -- better than the language that requires an IDE.
I would have to disagree with this point as well. To me, it feels like suggesting that computing is better with punch cards. Because, it is then also a fair point that a way of computing that can be done without a computer and editor is -- all other things being equal -- better than the way of computing that requires a computer and editor.
I think that thinking this way will also help numb the next leap in methods of instructing computers, and performing computation. Whether that involves a programming language or not.